More bad news, lifter issue possibly - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Ravener · 10-21-2012, 10:19 PM

So my continuing saga...

While waiting to hopefully someday get a proper tune on my damn car following a G6X3 cam install...I had some unpleasant business occur earlier this afternoon. While driving from one errand to the next I started to noticed a metallic "fluttering" sound coming from the engine...hard to pinpoint initially due to the cam but it became very evident at low speed pulling into a parking lot. Spent a few min with the motor running on and off to try to track the noise and it seems to be coming from the passenger side of the motor beneath the valve cover. Called a buddy who brought some tools and pulled the cover...checked the rockers and found one to have a good deal of play in it. Only thing we could think of was a collapsed lifter which would have the rod playing around and clanking etc etc...also indicated by the rocker having a lot of wiggle room (?). Car has 25k on it, the cam obviously, and all the upgraded toys LG sent in the cam kit. What other symptoms would a collapsed lifter give? Car is already at the shop, and I'm trying to figure out if there are better lifters I should use? (...while trying not to think about possible cam damage etc...)

nighttowl · 10-21-2012, 11:13 PM

Could be a wiped cam lobe, or a broken valve spring. a fully collapsed lifter sound amost sound like a rod knock, but in the top of the engine.

mikeSS · 10-22-2012, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nighttowl

Could be a wiped cam lobe, or a broken valve spring. a fully collapsed lifter sound amost sound like a rod knock, but in the top of the engine.

with the covers off, like he said he did. you should be able to see springs.

litle88 · 10-22-2012, 05:39 AM

How about a video, all we can do is speculate. What size pushrods did you replace the stock ones with?

I know some rockers will wiggle a Lil from side to side or when the valve is in the close position. But that's a little bit. Where the rockers torqued with a little toctite? I have seen some back out.
Did you check your valve springs? Check the inner springs too.

Ravener · 10-22-2012, 08:33 AM

So far all I can do is speculate. I checked the springs and I did not see any evidence of failure. The rod knock someone brought up is the closest sound I can compare it to, and that's why I pulled the rocker arm off that had way too much play in it...to first check the rod to see if it was bent. Rod was fine, they're the ones LG ships with its cam kit...but I'm heavily leaning towards junked lifter. Car is at shop now so hopefully more info will be available this afternoon. Hoping nothing more is messed up.

Russell James · 10-22-2012, 09:48 AM

Sounds like the heads have to come off, the cam can be inspected when the intake and heads are pulled. You can also cut open the oil filter to see if much metal debris is in there. I like to always run a magnetic oil plug as that is easier to check for metal.

If there is all that play in one of the rockers, there is nothing that can be done with the heads on. The lifters, cam, buckets, valves, lilfter bore, piston top... need to be inspected.

If a valve kissed a piston and is partially stuck open, that would also cause the increased play at that rocker. The LS3 lifters are quality pieces, often if one get's wiped out, something else caused it. Same lifter as used in LS7s.. and most street performance builds. A valve kissing a piston is a common cause of a damaged lifter.

Ravener · 10-22-2012, 09:55 AM

Mechanic said he sees galling on a rearward cam lobe through valley cover...sigh. Heads are coming off now. I'm thinking the G6X3 cam may not have been wisest path given its aggressive lift etc, though I used all the recommended components from LG. It could just be my luck to have a lifter come apart...but all I can do is speculate right now :(.

Smirnoff · 10-22-2012, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by litle88

What size pushrods did you replace the stock ones with?

Did you check your valve springs? Check the inner springs too.

Bam

Ravener · 10-22-2012, 10:29 AM

So new update. Apparently there is NOT enough ptv clearance in my motor with the G6X3 cam! WTF...I used exactly what LG recommended and sent to use this cam, and I have several collapsed lifters, cam scoring AND evidence of valves hitting the pistons. Guess its time to call LG

SS King · 10-22-2012, 10:35 AM

That's why I ALWAYS clay check for PTV clearance just to be safe. Better to take your time doing this then replacing parts. Hope ya get her fixed up real quick

Ravener · 10-22-2012, 10:44 AM

So at this point...logic would dictate that in no way should I keep/put this cam back in the car. If LG claims it should be fine (car has never been over reved or recklessly abused) and the builder is claiming the cam is too aggressive based on what appears to have happened in the motor...I'm at a loss. Even if comp cams fixed the cam...why the hell would I take another chance with this????? Night Fury perhaps...something less scary? Help.

IndeedSS1 · 10-22-2012, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravener

So new update. Apparently there is NOT enough ptv clearance in my motor with the G6X3 cam! WTF...I used exactly what LG recommended and sent to use this cam, and I have several collapsed lifters, cam scoring AND evidence of valves hitting the pistons. Guess its time to call LG

Oh man I'm sorry to hear that. Good luck!

Nessal · 10-22-2012, 10:46 AM

Was it like this?

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255563

I think I might have the same problem. The dealer is saying that it's not a lifter because there are no misfire codes...not sure if they are right on that.

Russell James · 10-22-2012, 11:18 AM

...lifter is not the cause, but collateral damage. Find out why the pistons hit the valves.

The block will need to be looked at closely in the lifter bores that had piston to valve contact to make sure there are no cracks. When everything is jammed solid with PTV contact, there can be a lot of hidden damage that need to be checked. If it's just light contact, the block and pistons should be OK. If there are big valve kisses in the pistons, I'd do a complete teardown. The pistons will need to be checked around the wrist pin bores for cracking if there was real hard contact. The pistons will tell the story once the heads are off as to how hard the PTV contacts were.

If you were having trouble tuning it, maybe the cam wasn't degree'd correctly. The power should come on strong and stay strong. Late building power, a dog on the bottom end is often a clue that the cam is way out of time.

10-21-2012, 10:19 PM	#1
Ravener Drives: 2010 2SS RS M6 Blk Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Md Posts: 287	More bad news, lifter issue possibly So my continuing saga... While waiting to hopefully someday get a proper tune on my damn car following a G6X3 cam install...I had some unpleasant business occur earlier this afternoon. While driving from one errand to the next I started to noticed a metallic "fluttering" sound coming from the engine...hard to pinpoint initially due to the cam but it became very evident at low speed pulling into a parking lot. Spent a few min with the motor running on and off to try to track the noise and it seems to be coming from the passenger side of the motor beneath the valve cover. Called a buddy who brought some tools and pulled the cover...checked the rockers and found one to have a good deal of play in it. Only thing we could think of was a collapsed lifter which would have the rod playing around and clanking etc etc...also indicated by the rocker having a lot of wiggle room (?). Car has 25k on it, the cam obviously, and all the upgraded toys LG sent in the cam kit. What other symptoms would a collapsed lifter give? Car is already at the shop, and I'm trying to figure out if there are better lifters I should use? (...while trying not to think about possible cam damage etc...) __________________ 418 LS3, custom cam, tuned vararam, ported tb, Kooks stepped LT's, Kooks Hi-Flo cats and 2.5" street sleeper cat back, 18% UDP, crap stock rear tire size 12.03 @ 117 mph.

10-21-2012, 11:13 PM	#2
nighttowl Sarcasm loading -------- Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: TX Posts: 1,808 View My Garage	Could be a wiped cam lobe, or a broken valve spring. a fully collapsed lifter sound amost sound like a rod knock, but in the top of the engine. __________________ "The salesman actually told me to stop getting it sideways during the test drive" 2018 MBM ZL1 1LE - Stock 2014 CRT ZL1 574 rwhp, 537 rwtq - SOLD 2010 IBM SS Camaro VVT L99 w/ TR6060 swap, 489 rwhp, 444 rwtq - SOLD

10-22-2012, 05:39 AM	#4
litle88 V8 Lounge member #2 Drives: 2001 Ws6 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Burbank,IL Posts: 6,373	How about a video, all we can do is speculate. What size pushrods did you replace the stock ones with? I know some rockers will wiggle a Lil from side to side or when the valve is in the close position. But that's a little bit. Where the rockers torqued with a little toctite? I have seen some back out. Did you check your valve springs? Check the inner springs too. __________________ 2001 ws6, 40k miles, Ls3 416 stroker, short block built by PER the rest by me. LPE Ls3 heads milled to 12-1 comp, FAST 102, NW 102, kooks 2", dual DMH cutouts, Magnaflow C/B, BTR cam + springs. Full UMI suspension.

10-22-2012, 08:33 AM	#5
Ravener Drives: 2010 2SS RS M6 Blk Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Md Posts: 287	So far all I can do is speculate. I checked the springs and I did not see any evidence of failure. The rod knock someone brought up is the closest sound I can compare it to, and that's why I pulled the rocker arm off that had way too much play in it...to first check the rod to see if it was bent. Rod was fine, they're the ones LG ships with its cam kit...but I'm heavily leaning towards junked lifter. Car is at shop now so hopefully more info will be available this afternoon. Hoping nothing more is messed up. __________________ 418 LS3, custom cam, tuned vararam, ported tb, Kooks stepped LT's, Kooks Hi-Flo cats and 2.5" street sleeper cat back, 18% UDP, crap stock rear tire size 12.03 @ 117 mph.

10-22-2012, 09:55 AM	#7
Ravener Drives: 2010 2SS RS M6 Blk Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Md Posts: 287	Mechanic said he sees galling on a rearward cam lobe through valley cover...sigh. Heads are coming off now. I'm thinking the G6X3 cam may not have been wisest path given its aggressive lift etc, though I used all the recommended components from LG. It could just be my luck to have a lifter come apart...but all I can do is speculate right now :(. __________________ 418 LS3, custom cam, tuned vararam, ported tb, Kooks stepped LT's, Kooks Hi-Flo cats and 2.5" street sleeper cat back, 18% UDP, crap stock rear tire size 12.03 @ 117 mph.

10-22-2012, 09:48 AM	#6
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,482	Sounds like the heads have to come off, the cam can be inspected when the intake and heads are pulled. You can also cut open the oil filter to see if much metal debris is in there. I like to always run a magnetic oil plug as that is easier to check for metal. If there is all that play in one of the rockers, there is nothing that can be done with the heads on. The lifters, cam, buckets, valves, lilfter bore, piston top... need to be inspected. If a valve kissed a piston and is partially stuck open, that would also cause the increased play at that rocker. The LS3 lifters are quality pieces, often if one get's wiped out, something else caused it. Same lifter as used in LS7s.. and most street performance builds. A valve kissing a piston is a common cause of a damaged lifter.

10-22-2012, 10:29 AM	#9
Ravener Drives: 2010 2SS RS M6 Blk Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Md Posts: 287	So new update. Apparently there is NOT enough ptv clearance in my motor with the G6X3 cam! WTF...I used exactly what LG recommended and sent to use this cam, and I have several collapsed lifters, cam scoring AND evidence of valves hitting the pistons. Guess its time to call LG __________________ 418 LS3, custom cam, tuned vararam, ported tb, Kooks stepped LT's, Kooks Hi-Flo cats and 2.5" street sleeper cat back, 18% UDP, crap stock rear tire size 12.03 @ 117 mph.

10-22-2012, 10:35 AM	#10
SS King Drives: a Panty Dropper Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Dehi Posts: 478	That's why I ALWAYS clay check for PTV clearance just to be safe. Better to take your time doing this then replacing parts. Hope ya get her fixed up real quick __________________

10-22-2012, 10:44 AM	#11
Ravener Drives: 2010 2SS RS M6 Blk Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Md Posts: 287	So at this point...logic would dictate that in no way should I keep/put this cam back in the car. If LG claims it should be fine (car has never been over reved or recklessly abused) and the builder is claiming the cam is too aggressive based on what appears to have happened in the motor...I'm at a loss. Even if comp cams fixed the cam...why the hell would I take another chance with this????? Night Fury perhaps...something less scary? Help. __________________ 418 LS3, custom cam, tuned vararam, ported tb, Kooks stepped LT's, Kooks Hi-Flo cats and 2.5" street sleeper cat back, 18% UDP, crap stock rear tire size 12.03 @ 117 mph.

10-22-2012, 10:46 AM	#13
Nessal Drives: Exige, Miata, Ghia Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: CA, Bay Area Posts: 2,309	Was it like this? http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255563 I think I might have the same problem. The dealer is saying that it's not a lifter because there are no misfire codes...not sure if they are right on that.

10-22-2012, 11:18 AM	#14
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,482	...lifter is not the cause, but collateral damage. Find out why the pistons hit the valves. The block will need to be looked at closely in the lifter bores that had piston to valve contact to make sure there are no cracks. When everything is jammed solid with PTV contact, there can be a lot of hidden damage that need to be checked. If it's just light contact, the block and pistons should be OK. If there are big valve kisses in the pistons, I'd do a complete teardown. The pistons will need to be checked around the wrist pin bores for cracking if there was real hard contact. The pistons will tell the story once the heads are off as to how hard the PTV contacts were. If you were having trouble tuning it, maybe the cam wasn't degree'd correctly. The power should come on strong and stay strong. Late building power, a dog on the bottom end is often a clue that the cam is way out of time.