Toyota Mirai Hydrogen Fuel Styling is...*sick*.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by derklug

Hawaii and Greenland could become the next great fuel exporters. Geothermal to generate electricity to crack seawater. Cheapest way to create hydrogen.

Not really. Geothermal electricity may be cheap, but electrolysis is about the most expensive way to create hydrogen gas. Cheapest way to do it is to make it from methane. Additionally, it is a royal pain in the ass to bottle the stuff up & transport it in any large scale quantity -which means places like Hawaii & Iceland (I'm sure you meant the small volcanic island, not the large glacial island) would be facing additional economic hurdles if they were to try and export hydrogen like the middle east exports oil.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by TastyBake

I understood. I was point out the efficiency to create hydrogen may increase where it won't be too dramatic and techniques to generate hydrogen will also be efficient in the future.

The problem is chemistry. When you break the bond between hydrogen & carbon (or oxygen if you're intent on using electrolysis), it takes a certain amount of energy. When you make a hydrogen bond with an oxygen atom (do it twice & you get water), you release a certain amount of energy. The problem is, it takes more energy to break those bonds than we can get back from making new ones.

Its like trying to pay off a debt by getting more loans. What you suggest is akin to admitting while a 20% interest rate is bad ... if we get it down to 10% it'll be fine. No ... what you need is an outside source of money (or energy) in order to make it all work. Which makes hydrogen not an energy source like oil, but a form of energy storage like a battery.

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

The Audi A7 H-Tron Quattro is much better looking and price wise only about $20K more for a lot more car. Plug-in Electric/Hydrogen Hybrid, basically like a Volt but with a Hydrogen backup motor not gas after the first ~30ish miles of the battery pack.

The Toyota thing is starting @ $54,000 I believe, the Audi @ $67,000

http://www.cnet.com/news/audi-a7-h-t...ery-pack-tech/






However I will kept my ICE vehicle for now.. I don't think battery, plug-in, hybrid, or Hydrogen vehicles are advanced enough to be worth the money and I have an aversion to being a beta-tester for these manufacturers on my dime..

[trashmanssd]

nothing really is an energy source everything is just a battery, just stored potential energy. oil is just stored energy from decayed organic matter. Dirt is a battery storing nutrients for plants. Chocolate is stored energy for my fat ass.

[trademaster]

Originally Posted by sizl1

5 minutes to fuel up, instead of 1 hour.

I think the recharging problem is exaggerated because people don't think it through completely. Consider the fact that with an electric car, if you plug it in every night when you get home, you will always leave your house in the morning with a full charge. With a new Tesla Model D, that means you have around 300 mile range every day without ever having to stop for a fuel up at any point in time. So if your daily commute is below ~300 miles, you will never have to stop and fuel up. If you live in one of the areas with, "supercharger" stations, you can also recharge to half capacity in 20 minutes if for some reason you forge to charge at night or something. Unless you plan to road trip with the car, there are really no advantages to hydrogen vehicles in regard to recharge/refuel time. In fact, electric will be more convenient most of the time because your car will, "refuel" while you sleep instead of having to pull off at a station.

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Originally Posted by trademaster

I think the recharging problem is exaggerated because people don't think it through completely. Consider the fact that with an electric car, if you plug it in every night when you get home, you will always leave your house in the morning with a full charge. With a new Tesla Model D, that means you have around 300 mile range every day without ever having to stop for a fuel up at any point in time. So if your daily commute is below ~300 miles, you will never have to stop and fuel up. If you live in one of the areas with, "supercharger" stations, you can also recharge to half capacity in 20 minutes if for some reason you forge to charge at night or something. Unless you plan to road trip with the car, there are really no advantages to hydrogen vehicles in regard to recharge/refuel time. In fact, electric will be more convenient most of the time because your car will, "refuel" while you sleep instead of having to pull off at a station.

this is how I see it.. I work ~25 miles from home, for me any electric car will work that has at least a 60 mile range, it will get me home and back..

now my company offers free charging as a work perk, so we have a lot of electric vehicles, of 2500 or so employees we have about 200 electric or plug-in hybrid employees..

so in this case, they charge at home and at work and have ~8 hours in between their drives so their vehicles are always "full" for their daily work commute to and from work.

---

however.. This is not true for all of them..

people that live in an apartment don't always have access to power to charge from home, and they are relying on the company for their power, which is fine as long and you don't have to go anywhere over the weekend I guess.

-----------

I have solar on my house, I generate ~35 kw/hr a day on average.. so an electric car would be ok for me, but every one I have seen are butt ugly and no one makes one in a convertible so again I will stick with my Camaro.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

The problem is chemistry. When you break the bond between hydrogen & carbon (or oxygen if you're intent on using electrolysis), it takes a certain amount of energy. When you make a hydrogen bond with an oxygen atom (do it twice & you get water), you release a certain amount of energy. The problem is, it takes more energy to break those bonds than we can get back from making new ones.

Its like trying to pay off a debt by getting more loans. What you suggest is akin to admitting while a 20% interest rate is bad ... if we get it down to 10% it'll be fine. No ... what you need is an outside source of money (or energy) in order to make it all work. Which makes hydrogen not an energy source like oil, but a form of energy storage like a battery.

Well said!

[c5Legend]

wow that thing is ugly and just flat out stupid looking.

[jstud]

A Civic had sex with a Saturn....This is what came out.

[Big Ray]

That's plain disgusting! I find it weird that we're seeing hydrogen tech now years after they first tried it and years after electric cars have had a chance to make a name for themselves. Are things going to go the way of hydrogen and we see electric power abandoned completely? Either way I don't ever want to see a electric or hydro Camaro!

[Mongo RS]

GM did hydrogen power in the 60's

http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/gm-electrovan.htm

[dmginc]

needs bigger front grills....o.O