Only Real Competitor...

[ArcAngel]

iwannagofast to echo your sentiments my biggest complaint of the camaro is the interior its not even really the design its the hard touch plastics and painted aluminum accents. Evcen in the SS trim the interior is a little better than my cobalt like almost malibu. This is a huge let down for me at that 40000 price. Now I know alot of these guys will say look at the engine you get, but guys people shop for the whole package. Just because its an awesome engine doesnt mean the interior should be cheap.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by Supermans

I have to revise your list


0. Ford Mustang GT500 (Too high a price range to compare but would be on top if you did) (Corvette is a sports car so not included)

1. ChevyCamaro SS

2. Dodge Challenger SRT 6-Speed

3. Dodge Charger SRT8

4. 2006 6.0 GTO

5. Bullitt Mustang (2010 Mustang GT)

6. Challenger R/T

7. Mustang GT (2009)

8. Camaro V6

9. Mustang V6

10. Challenger V6

....So you want me to take the GT500 off completely?

[Tal]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

I think there will be 4 groups of people.


1. Us. The smallest of all the groups. We represent a biased minority which cant be used to judge how people will recive this car. We have come into the fight with loaded dice. The Camaro has won. We already made up our minds which is why most of us are here. This is based onBrand/Camaro loyalty, or the 'love at first sight'. But again, minority. Keep in mind the 370z has this same group of loyals.

2. The 'family man' who cares about backseats enough to let it effect his choice of vehicle. This is for the guy who will ignore an entire market of 2-seater cars for his family, but wont go all the way to a G8 GXP. Im having a hard time believing that this group will be very large because this car wasnt built for/nor will it be directed towards the middle aged father. Like the 370z, it was built for a younger crowd... a younger crowd which wont be in such dire need for backseats.

3. The ignorant people who wont buy an American car because its American. Like it or not, this group is a big one. The steriotypes have been burned into the back's of our minds, and though you and I know better the General public is being bombarded with Anti GM/Chrysler propoganda coming from our own Media. The hype surrounding the backrupcy of GM and uncertainty surrounding the whole situation will drive a lot of buyers away, all the while the Japanese automakers like Nissan will bring in tons of buyers based the false premise of reliability.

4. The General Public. This is where the Camaro will fight and Win/Loose its battles. These people will weigh everything that is important to them and make a fair and honest choice based on their situation. They wont NEED the backseats, though they may be factored in as a plus. Performance/price/practicality, all will be factored in. People here may weigh the seats of the Camaro vs. the Gas milage of the Z (im assuming it gets better milage than the SS being a V6.. could be wrong)

1 - People that have already made their decisions made them after they fell into one category or another. The decision might ultimately go back decades but such loyalty isn't blind, the 'Camaro' name is simply part of what they've come to consider fun over the years. But if the car didn't meet the rest of their expectations and the Camaro SS was actually a rebadged HHR the fun of the Camaro name would be overshadowed not meeting a long list of other expectations for a fun by most of this group. Still, if you want to group these buyers seperately I can understand, but they didn't start out there.

2 - There's far more than the family man that cares about back seats and hauling a stuff. It's kind of funny to think of a Camaro for hauling things around until you seriously consider the limits of having something like a 370Z or any other sports car/roadster such as the Corvette, Z4, Solstice, Miata, etc as your only vehicle.

3 - Might have a point here, I was only talking about Camaro shoppers though and these people aren't.

4 - This is a misnomer IMO, eveyone falls into the general public. You can divide this public into any number of categories if you want though.

[Tal]

Originally Posted by iwannagofast

It has made me take a second look. I think this car is going to hurt the 2010 Mustang GT and V6 editions. Camaro I still firmly believe will be on top, but I need to test drive at least the 2lt to see what I'm going to do. Hyundai did their homework and created I dare say a muscle car that can compete with the Camaro. I just wish they would have brembos on the 2lt RS.

I would easily buy either Camaro (V6/V8) or even a Challenger R/T over the Genesis but if those two cars weren't on the market I would give it serious consideration. Ended up taking a look at one the other day and it was surprising, I think it has a similiar problem to the Mustang of MSRP that's about $2k over what it should be across the board though.

[ArcAngel]

yea I will agree with that assessment of the genesis, definitely still overpriced, also the exterior looks alittle squashed for me

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

....So you want me to take the GT500 off completely?

LOL, It's your list and I don't know the criteria you are using to place the cars in what order. I would imagine if it were raw power, speed, fastest 0-60 etc etc, then the GT500 would be on top of the list regardless of price. Putting the GT500 on that list, you might as well put the GT500KR as well on top of that one since you have all makes of everything else..I guess you can take the Charger SRT8 off that I put on the revised list since that is a four door sedan (what was I thinking)..Overall I like that you put the Camaro SS on top as it is the best bang for your buck..

If the list is "The Best Bang for your Buck list, then leave it as it is..

[hardestgainer]

Originally Posted by Mormegil

Have you seen the price of a loaded Genesis? It's almost the same as a 1SS. Who in their right mind would rather have a 305 hp V6 Hyundai instead of a 426hp Chevrolet?

becasue there are a ton of people(especially my generation) that think imports are just better period, they just think "oh american cars sucks, buy imports" I really dont know how it got to the point where almost all teenagers and young adults think that but its unfortunatly the case.


I personally think the 370Z isnt very good looking, but is a good performing car for the money, but like someone else said, i wouldnt buy one, no part of it is made in the US and right now I think we should probably be supporting the American companies so more people dont need to lose their jobs.

Even though I know this thread for cars that would be competition besides the stang or challenger id still have to say mustang will be the #1 competitor is the mustang, ESPECIALLY considering ford dealers are letting shelby GT500s go for 40k right now2010 probably wont be the same situation though

[Paintcode40]

Rice is a side dish for my meat.

[Shurenuff]

Originally Posted by ArcAngel

iwannagofast to echo your sentiments my biggest complaint of the camaro is the interior its not even really the design its the hard touch plastics and painted aluminum accents. Evcen in the SS trim the interior is a little better than my cobalt like almost malibu. This is a huge let down for me at that 40000 price. Now I know alot of these guys will say look at the engine you get, but guys people shop for the whole package. Just because its an awesome engine doesnt mean the interior should be cheap.

Unfortunately, after checking out the SS2/RS at the Chicago auto show, I have to agree with you. The design is not bad at all (and neither are the seats) but the materials used for the interior are a definite disappointment for me.

Now I'm not expecting a Mercedes Benz interior, but the use of soft touch materials and perhaps better quality trim pieces for the RS model (like the real aluminum that the new Mustang will use on some models) would have gone a long way.

If the 370z can offer up a quality interior, the Camaro (especially in the upper trim levels) should also.

[SVThis]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

I think it's cool, but, I'm not completely comfortable rlying on a computer to keep everything lined up... especially when trying to power/speed shift at max revs with max load.

But, I've never had it sooo... I think people who don't want to learn how to power shift will love it...

I may be wrong but I don't think matching revs on a down shift has anything to do with power shifting. The Nissan tranny feature is better than sliced bread IMHO. Have any of you guys ever tried braking while doing a heel and toe and rev matching for the down shift. It isn't easy by any means. I'd die for this feature on just about any car.

[Muscle Master]

Originally Posted by SVThis

I may be wrong but I don't think matching revs on a down shift has anything to do with power shifting. The Nissan tranny feature is better than sliced bread IMHO. Have any of you guys ever tried braking while doing a heel and toe and rev matching for the down shift. It isn't easy by any means. I'd die for this feature on just about any car.

Next to the Mercedes seven speed transmissions, this has got to be one of the best transmissions on the market right now

[ArcAngel]

Sherenuff definitely!! SVTthis Totally agree and muscle master I drove both the 6 speed manual and the seven speed auto both with the syncrorev completely awesome both!!!

[RiceRocket]

wow...another 370z thread.
:(

Personally, I'm still warming up to the look of the 370Z, although the interior is real nice, a definite improvement over the 350Z, and the performance numbers speak for themselves.

The synchro feature sounds amazing, however, with my past experiences with my first-year 350Z and all the recalls involved, I would wait until 2010 or 11 when the wrinkles are ironed out before jumping on a 370Z, so you don't end up spending hours/days in the service department.
First year sportscars are always a ticking time bomb.
I mean...look at the GT-R tranny thing......not good.

and someone mentioned a new supra.......
I don't think so.
Not any time soon anyways.
Toyota is too busy making money on economy cars to worry about a halo car like the supra.

[Muscle Master]

Originally Posted by RiceRocket

wow...another 370z thread.
:(

Personally, I'm still warming up to the look of the 370Z, although the interior is real nice, a definite improvement over the 350Z, and the performance numbers speak for themselves.

The synchro feature sounds amazing, however, with my past experiences with my first-year 350Z and all the recalls involved, I would wait until 2010 or 11 when the wrinkles are ironed out before jumping on a 370Z, so you don't end up spending hours/days in the service department.
First year sportscars are always a ticking time bomb.
I mean...look at the GT-R tranny thing......not good.

and someone mentioned a new supra.......
I don't think so.
Not any time soon anyways.
Toyota is too busy making money on economy cars to worry about a halo car like the supra.

That was me who mention it, I heard 2012 I hope so