THESE NUMBERS DON'T MAKE SENSE

[The Flash]

I just visited your page at this forum and saw your kid picture. That young man sure looks happy there!

I have three youngsters myself.

May you and your family always enjoy your vehicles in good health and derive great satisfactions from them.

Best regards,

The Flash

[MarkSS]

First of all, the transmission issue (already commented on, but this is from the initial press release for the 1LE):

"While the Camaro SS features a Tremec TR6060-M10 for all-around performance, the Camaro 1LE features an exclusive Tremec TR6060-MM6. Paired with a numerically higher 3.91 final-drive ratio, the close-ratio gearing of the transmission is tuned for road-racing performance. As with the ZL1, the 1LE transmission features a standard air-to-liquid cooling system for track use."

Second, traction is HUGE in drag racing and the Goodyears on the 1LE stick like glue when they are warm... much better than the Pirelli's on the SS. 60 foot times mean everything for drag racers.

Third, subjectively just about everyone who has a 1LE and who has previously owned an SS reports a quicker "feel" to the acceleration, myself included. I hope to have numbers to back that up if it ever quits snowing here in MN. I attribute that to the combination of changes (the 1LE is more than an SS with a different suspension). Gear ratio, transmission, wheels, tires, exhaust, electric power steering.... how is it so hard to see that could make up at least 3 tenths?

Fourth, drag strip times are impacted by weather, so same car on a different day will produce different results... same car with a different driver will produce different results.

[The Flash]

Originally Posted by Crand

WTF is this? .3 faster to 60 is .3 faster to 1/4 mile.

NO, it is not the way it happens.

Some stock rice beaters are quicker than a small block V8 to the 60mph time yet are a car and a half lengths behind by the time the 1/4 mile comes by.

Did drag racing in my auto and motorcycles some years ago.

I wish it was like you said!!!

The Flash

[cbass]

Originally Posted by The Flash

NO, it is not the way it happens.

Some stock rice beaters are quicker than a small block V8 to the 60mph time yet are a car and a half lengths behind by the time the 1/4 mile comes by.

Did drag racing in my auto and motorcycles some years ago.

I wish it was like you said!!!

The Flash

Ya.....but in that case you have different cars. You are talking about different weight, different gearing, different powerbands. Here you are talking about a car that weighs the same and in essence still uses the same engine.

[Blizzard]

I am still lost about why you are asking about a full 3 seconds when it is only 0.3 seconds faster.

Now the gain of 0.3 seconds in the 0-60 mph time is because it gets the power to the ground and closer gearing from 1st to 2nd. The 0.3 seconds gained in the 1/4 mile time are because after the 1LE reaches the 60 mph range it is almost identical to a standard SS.

[Good2go]

Maybe GM has reduced the effect that torque management has on the 1LE. Before my mods, I could feel tm kicking in, reducing engine power during aggressive driving.

[newb]

If you look at the 1LE dyno thread they are putting mid 390s to low 400 Hp to the rollers. This is on average about 15 Hp more to the ground than previous SS cars. I haven't seen numbers for 13 SS cars but I suspect they make more than the 12s as well since the EPS came standard for 13.

If you look at the 1LE differences you will find your answer. All of the little parts add up to better acceleration and a lighter feeling car.

[The Flash]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

Flash, go to this thread:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270792

and you will see a link to a PDF that indicates the transmission gearing difference in the 1LE transmission vs. the SS transmission.

@gajagfan:

I checked the thread you indicated.

Very interesting information. I found the following :



So it seems that GM indeed offers a different transmission in the CAMARO 1LE

A revised new set of gears in the transmission plus a reduced final drive ratio and all the other minor mods (elimination of hydro pump, reduced unsprung weight, better suspension which aids instantaneous weight transfer and better grip from the tires) can beef up the car sufficiently to achieve the three seconds margin over an equally engined SS which concerned me.

Your observation about this being a "track designed" transmission is also duly noted.
While it might yield quicker times than an SS, it will probably gives up a lot in top speed, which the CAMARO achieves in fifth gear.

I will like to watch the video to which you refer. In drag racing that required extra shift is sure a boomer.

In a bike is not an issue as you race using clutchless shifting technique, but in a car under the stress and excitement of competition it will be easy to botch the upshift and ruin your run.

I think your input is right on the money on this subject, therefore kuddos to you.

Please post the link or URL to the video when you have the chance.

Best regards,

The Flash

[The Flash]

Originally Posted by Blizzard

I am still lost about why you are asking about a full 3 seconds when it is only 0.3 seconds faster.

Now the gain of 0.3 seconds in the 0-60 mph time is because it gets the power to the ground and closer gearing from 1st to 2nd. The 0.3 seconds gained in the 1/4 mile time are because after the 1LE reaches the 60 mph range it is almost identical to a standard SS.

Sorry, you're right, my mistake.

It's a 0.3 secs difference in the time slip. I dropped the decimal point somewhere!!

Anyhow , gajagfan & TedW clarified the issue confirming the indication from JeffInDFW that indeed a different transmission is key to the improved times. The more aggressive diff and the rest of the changes already discussed here make up the story.

Thank you too for your input.

Seems not much but I was into drag racing (in my younger years) a single tenth cost a few thousands and meant everything. Even now, achieving it seems an issue, to me at least.


Safe driving,


The Flash

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by The Flash

@gajagfan:

I checked the thread you indicated.

Very interesting information. I found the following :

Attachment 501851

So it seems that GM indeed offers a different transmission in the CAMARO 1LE

A revised new set of gears in the transmission plus a reduced final drive ratio and all the other minor mods (elimination of hydro pump, reduced unsprung weight, better suspension which aids instantaneous weight transfer and better grip from the tires) can beef up the car sufficiently to achieve the three seconds margin over an equally engined SS which concerned me.

Your observation about this being a "track designed" transmission is also duly noted.
While it might yield quicker times than an SS, it will probably gives up a lot in top speed, which the CAMARO achieves in fifth gear.

I will like to watch the video to which you refer. In drag racing that required extra shift is sure a boomer.

In a bike is not an issue as you race using clutchless shifting technique, but in a car under the stress and excitement of competition it will be easy to botch the upshift and ruin your run.

I think your input is right on the money on this subject, therefore kuddos to you.

Please post the link or URL to the video when you have the chance.

Best regards,

The Flash

I will look for the link, but assume it was a You Tube thing, so I am sure it can be found by anyone searching for 1LE videos on You Tube. As far as top speed, I do not think there will be a difference because the 1LE tranny has a taller 5th gear than the standard SS, and the final drive ration for 5th gear in the 1LE is 2.89 opposed to 2.90 in the SS. Looking at those ratios, I guess the top end could actually be higher in the 1LE, though it might not be by much. I believe the top end is speed related, and not RPM related, so it probably does not matter!

[Crand]

Originally Posted by The Flash

NO, it is not the way it happens.

Yes it is. If a car is travelling faster than another car, the slower car can't gain the time unless it gains enough speed to overtake the gap. The ricers beat other cars because the turbo kicks in later down the lane. That's the difference between two cars, not the same car. I feel dumber for even trying to explain this. Perhaps you should open a geometry textbook?

Two cars leave the line at the same time, one accelerates to 100mph, the other to 88 mph. Unless the latter is a DeLorean, is it possible to overtake the former? NO!

[The Flash]

Perhaps you should open a geometry textbook?

I believe you should consider re-reading all the thread. Hardly worth further comment

Have a good day, nevertheless


The Flash

[The Flash]

Originally Posted by newb

If you look at the 1LE dyno thread they are putting mid 390s to low 400 Hp to the rollers. This is on average about 15 Hp more to the ground than previous SS cars. I haven't seen numbers for 13 SS cars but I suspect they make more than the 12s as well since the EPS came standard for 13.

If you look at the 1LE differences you will find your answer. All of the little parts add up to better acceleration and a lighter feeling car.

@newb:

That's yet another interesting angle.

You are right in that the Dyno numbers for the first and second year SS are way lower than 400's, actually lower than 390. Lots of power losses.

If the 1LE can Dyno above 390 or around 400 then that completes the picture.

I now feel a bit bad, kinda left out...

Is good info to know, I truly appreciate your contribution to clarify this issue.

It seems, money per mph the 1LE exceeds all expectations, probably surpasses the Z/28 if you account for cost vs. content vs. performance.

Safe driving,

The Flash

[cbass]

Anyhow , gajagfan & TedW clarified the issue confirming the indication from JeffInDFW that indeed a different transmission is key to the improved times. The more aggressive diff and the rest of the changes already discussed here make up the story.

Why do you say it's the transmission? It's the gearing and to be honest the only place the gearing makes a difference is in fourth gear since it's direct drive. The gearing inside the MM6 is different from the M10 which makes the gearing the same in pretty much all the gears except fourth. It has an effect, but less of an effect than putting in 3.91's and keeping all the internal ratios the same.