buick grand national coming back!

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by rocket403

No style at all

The original GTO was just a 1964 Tempest... that day's equivalent of a Corolla or Altima. I can't imagine anybody back then being very excited about the styling. They were excited about the big engine, though.

All the muscle cars everybody is so nostalgic about were just whatever mid-sized cars existed at the time with a big engines stuffed into them. There was no special styling. Except for a badge or two a 454 Chevelle could look exactly like a 6 cyl Chevelle right down to the bench seat and column shifter.

The '04 GTO fit that blueprint perfectly yet the baby boomer morons rejected it because the rose colored glasses clouded their memory of what muscle cars really were back in the day.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

The original GTO was just a 1964 Tempest... that day's equivalent of a Corolla or Altima. I can't imagine anybody back then being very excited about the styling. They were excited about the big engine, though.

All the muscle cars everybody is so nostalgic about were just whatever mid-sized cars existed at the time with a big engines stuffed into them. There was no special styling. Except for a badge or two a 454 Chevelle could look exactly like a 6 cyl Chevelle right down to the bench seat and column shifter.

The '04 GTO fit that blueprint perfectly yet the baby boomer morons rejected it because the rose colored glasses clouded their memory of what muscle cars really were back in the day.

In no way did the 04 GTO fit the blueprint of the origional GTO.
The origional GTO, a REAL Pontiac with a large engine and other performance hardware added. A huge success...The 04 GTO, A Car built by a different division of GM with a Pontiac nose stuck on and GTO emblems.... It flopped just like the G8 did, it just didn't appeal to people. It is Badge engineering. Not the same blueprint used for the 64 GTO.
You want to blame Baby boomers and call them names but we are not the only people buying cars, it didn't go over with any generation.

That being said you cannot deny the performance credentials of the car, it's just nobody thought it should have been called a GTO.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

@Angrybird

Was the 1964 GTO not based on a lowly Tempest?

Then they put in a beefed up drive train and stuck on a hood with a fake scoop. That was it. It wasn't some super special creation dreamed up by the gods.

The '04 comes in for a lot of hate because it was based on a Holden. The Holden was far and away the best performance platform GM had back then. Was there even anything else RWD besides the Corvette and some trucks?

So GM stuck a big engine and a beefed up drive train (but forgot to put the fake scoop on the hood) into what was already a pretty good platform. I sincerely don't understand what was not to like.

You say badge engineering, it wasn't. Badge engineering is putting a badge from a good car on a sucky car. The Holden was a really good car and deserved the GTO badge just as much as, if not more than, the original Tempest.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

In no way did the 04 GTO fit the blueprint of the origional GTO.
The origional GTO, a REAL Pontiac with a large engine and other performance hardware added. A huge success...The 04 GTO, A Car built by a different division of GM with a Pontiac nose stuck on and GTO emblems.... It flopped just like the G8 did, it just didn't appeal to people. It is Badge engineering. Not the same blueprint used for the 64 GTO.
You want to blame Baby boomers and call them names but we are not the only people buying cars, it didn't go over with any generation.

That being said you cannot deny the performance credentials of the car, it's just nobody thought it should have been called a GTO.

I'm ok with the GTO getting no love but it really was more than just badge engineering. After 10-1/2 years and just shy of 100k miles I still love mine.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

I'm ok with the GTO getting no love but it really was more than just badge engineering. After 10-1/2 years and just shy of 100k miles I still love mine.

Yes they did do a lot to it to make it sound more muscle car like, tuned the suspension for American roads and also meet US safety and emmissions standards.
I have never questioned its performance abilities. It was a nice car, I think they could and should have done better.
Do you think the Camaro would have been the sucess it is today if they had gone the same route as they did with the GTO?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Yes they did do a lot to it to make it sound more muscle car like and also meet US safety and emmissions standards.
I have never questioned its performance abilities. It was a nice car, I think they could and should have done better.
Do you think the Camaro would have been the sucess it is today if they had gone the same route as they did with the GTO?

The GTO was given to us because GM couldn't or wouldn't develop a Camaro/Trans Am. It is what it is but IMO a better car than a 4-door Charger or the 04 pre retro Mustang or 300 HP retro 05 GT

So bring this back to the original topic. GM isn't going to design a 80s looking Buick so they can offer you a retro looking GN. The Tempest based GTO came from nowhere and earned its reputation. Cadillac reinvented itself by not looking backwards too. Hopefully Buick can do the same

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by nester7929

The GTO was just a Holden, and every auto enthusiast knew it. Good car performance-wise, but the styling was bland as hell; especially compared to the 2005 Mustang that just hit the streets. People wanted retro, and GM foolishly thought they could accomplish that by slapping an old badge on an existing car.

I'd love to see a new GTO. A real one, not a damn Holden.

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Thank you, you make my point exactly. The car was never the issue, because it was a very solid performance car. It is simply that everyone wanted a retro GTO.

In a lot of ways, I'm glad it never happened because Pontiac died out...which it needed to do. That being said, I've often wondered how well this car would have sold had they re-badged it as a Chevy Camaro...

This ^ The GTO hit about the exact same time as the retro S197 mustang. say what you will about the mustang, but the retro styling is what really made it a success. The GTO had no chance to compete sales wise.

on topic of the GN, IF it were to come back, wouldn't it essentially just be a ATS-V coupe in Buick form?

[GNVenom]

My best guess is that *if* GM decides to go both-feet-in on doing a GN, it will most definitely use an existing platform and be badged accordingly. GM is not about to create a specific platform for the alluring crowd who worship the turbo G body car...remember, it started its life as a Regal and went from there. When the turbo Regal was introduced, GM did it very quietly, and let the magazine editors run with the flag. Up until that time (and excluding the GS and GSX 455's) Buick was the grandfather car. so, considering back in the years from 1982 thru 1987, GM sold a mere 70,000 of the turbo cars - that's the TOTAL sold within all those years. By the time 1986 rolled around, the turbo Buick finally put out a respectable amount of HP and TQ with its added intercooler, then its demise followed the next year. GM killed it off due to 1. lack of sales, and 2. life-end of RWD platform (the Cutlass was the last RWD in 1988). Plus it had to have been a warranty nightmare as the modifications almost immediately took off with a vengeance, putting drive train stress at its height. Back in 1986, the first year of the intercooled version, a simple chip change and air filter addition swung the high 14 second factory stock vehicle into the mid 13's at will. Then the desire to move into the 12's and 11's immediately followed, putting the drivetrain at risk. Still, it had become a cult car and still is, given that 10 second stock-block GNs are absolutely everywhere and surely the norm. They've been eating Mustangs and everything else since then and even today.

One foot off the platform, hopefully GM has the cajones to make the resurrected GN a special vehicle in itself and builds enough wiggle room for the enthusiast to up the ante with bolt-ons, and still stay within common sense - or not. It will allow the re- entry of the GNX to hit the top of the charts. And regardless, I'm in on this one.

Other foot off the platform...

[KMPrenger]

If GN came back, it would likely be based on Alpha. Makes the most sense to me. It would be ridiculous to develop a new platform for it.

Also, it would be thoroughly modern....not retro, and honestly can't see any ties back to the 80s GN in styling even if it were a modern rendition (like I consider the 5th gen to be, and not really just full on retro). That car, while being pretty cool, is nothing at all that I'd want to see in a modern car.

All it would need to be is fast/aggressive looking coupe, with a powerful turbo V6 engine and it would be worthy of the GN name.

Would it really sell all that well?? Doubtful. A car like this, wearing the Buick name would come at a premium cost. How many of you out there would buck up the additional cost over a Camaro or something like that? Think Chevrolet SS (sedan) type costs or more.