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Old 09-23-2011, 08:15 PM   #57
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I've done many port jobs on intakes as well as heads and have never had a problem. I'm going to asses the head ports on my day off and see what will need to be done to make them match.
As for going lean, I have always ended up having to take away fuel after porting.

But my background is in motorcycles and not cars so thanks for the heads up.
Yea.. my experience is mostly with motorcycles. When I worked for Superbike Mike, we used old valves ground down to the optimized first port's diameter to slide into the throat as a template to match up the others.

I was interested in those little bumps on the exit side of the runners... wonder if they were intentional?
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Old 09-23-2011, 08:19 PM   #58
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Yea.. my experience is mostly with motorcycles. When I worked for Superbike Mike, we used old valves ground down to the optimized first port's diameter to slide into the throat as a template to match up the others.

I was interested in those little bumps on the exit side of the runners... wonder if they were intentional?
Good Idea on the used valves!

Do you mean the bumps where I just didn't finish it completely smooth?
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Old 09-23-2011, 08:28 PM   #59
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Good Idea on the used valves!

Do you mean the bumps where I just didn't finish it completely smooth?

Yea... they didn't seem to be there to support anything though, they could have been there to help the intake half release from the cast mold.... but, they might be there to promote a certain flow characteristic. But, looking at the rest of the intake, it's most likely a mistake leftover from when the mold was made. For those kinds of castings, they form a new sand mold for each casting. Looks like there might have been a problem with the mold. Take a look at your intake when you get it off. It might have that same feature.
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Old 09-23-2011, 08:51 PM   #60
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As for going lean, I have always ended up having to take away fuel after porting.
On a DI engine, the MAF registers the total air through the intake and the ECU basically divides that amount by 6 and fuels accordingly. In a throttle body injected engine, the fuel is added to the airflow and mixed before it gets to the intake plenum area so, each cylinder gets all the air with fuel it can pack in. If one cylinder flows a bit more, the mixture is still the same.

In a bike engine, with individual carbs, each cylinder will still fuel for the amount of air it can pack into the cylinders. CV carbs are best at this because they work on vacuum in each intake so if one flows more air, it will still fuel more keeping the mixture right.

In our DI engine, (or FI motorcycle engine) if one cylinder gets more air, the ECU is still only fueling for 1/6th of the total airflow so, that cylinder could be lean. Add turbulence in the intake tract to that, which can cause incomplete burning of the mixture, and you could run way lean and hurt stuff... mostly exhaust valves. Better a safe tune than broke from buying new parts.
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Old 09-23-2011, 08:58 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Beauwulf View Post
On a DI engine, the MAF registers the total air through the intake and the ECU basically divides that amount by 6 and fuels accordingly. In a throttle body injected engine, the fuel is added to the airflow and mixed before it gets to the intake plenum area so, each cylinder gets all the air with fuel it can pack in. If one cylinder flows a bit more, the mixture is still the same.

In a bike engine, with individual carbs, each cylinder will still fuel for the amount of air it can pack into the cylinders. CV carbs are best at this because they work on vacuum in each intake so if one flows more air, it will still fuel more keeping the mixture right.

In our DI engine, (or FI motorcycle engine) if one cylinder gets more air, the ECU is still only fueling for 1/6th of the total airflow so, that cylinder could be lean. Add turbulence in the intake tract to that, which can cause incomplete burning of the mixture, and you could run way lean and hurt stuff... mostly exhaust valves. Better a safe tune than broke from buying new parts.
Thanks for the explanation. That may make a difference.
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:04 PM   #62
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Damn, one of the best V6 threads since the Vararam/thottlebody, We really have a lot of talent working on the 6'ers

Now if we could just get it blown let the 8's
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Old 09-24-2011, 11:43 AM   #63
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Beauwulf has it right on. Always nice to have others that are truely knowledgable contributing to these threads!!!
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:07 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Beauwulf View Post
On a DI engine, the MAF registers the total air through the intake and the ECU basically divides that amount by 6 and fuels accordingly. In a throttle body injected engine, the fuel is added to the airflow and mixed before it gets to the intake plenum area so, each cylinder gets all the air with fuel it can pack in. If one cylinder flows a bit more, the mixture is still the same.

In a bike engine, with individual carbs, each cylinder will still fuel for the amount of air it can pack into the cylinders. CV carbs are best at this because they work on vacuum in each intake so if one flows more air, it will still fuel more keeping the mixture right.

In our DI engine, (or FI motorcycle engine) if one cylinder gets more air, the ECU is still only fueling for 1/6th of the total airflow so, that cylinder could be lean. Add turbulence in the intake tract to that, which can cause incomplete burning of the mixture, and you could run way lean and hurt stuff... mostly exhaust valves. Better a safe tune than broke from buying new parts.
I couldn't agree with you more there. I've seen too many threads on different forums talking about porting intake manifolds and that they are gasket matched. doing this is alot common on a lot of platforms, specifically in the older V8 crowd and there is merit to it when the runners are only ~1.5" long.

Another thing to consider would be to port match especially if you are not doing the heads, By port matching (not gasket matching) you allow the intake to perform as it was engineered. Remember, that engineers develop and draft out parts, then they get adjusted to allow for tolerances in the casting/machining process. By doing the porting we get it back to the engineer's original design. Gasket matching on the other hand is greatly changing the shape and not improving flow at all sometimes then you are even worse off as you now have a lip sticking in the path of airflow...

Im sure BSR has experience and I can only assume he know what he is doing and more kudos to you for even trying this out on your ownIt really would of been awesome tho if you had a dyno shop around to know exactly if you gained, same, or lost any.

I am sending mine out next week to be ported so I should have some official before/after dyno numbers of what a tuned and ported IM will do to our cars.
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Old 09-24-2011, 03:45 PM   #65
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I am sending mine out next week to be ported so I should have some official before/after dyno numbers of what a tuned and ported IM will do to our cars.
Great stuff....this ported intake thing is really taking off now lol.....its something I've been waiting to see for a long time now.
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:04 PM   #66
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Has anyone gotten confermation that the 2012 intake is not compatible with the LLT?
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:31 PM   #67
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Has anyone gotten confermation that the 2012 intake is not compatible with the LLT?
No go unfortunately.

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Great stuff....this ported intake thing is really taking off now lol.....its something I've been waiting to see for a long time now.
Me too prenger. I was actually going to wait for RX or even try to do it myself like BSR but I didn't want to leave any hp on the table or even end up losing more flow so I decided to spend my money right the first time. I don't want to hijack BSR's thread so I plan to start a new thread once I get a baseline dyno established and the porting halfway finished. I think I am done for this year once I finish with this and couple other things I am currently working on Unless somebody decide to give us early christmas gift lol cams maybe?
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Old 09-24-2011, 05:36 PM   #68
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I don't want to hijack BSR's thread so I plan to start a new thread once I get a baseline dyno established and the porting halfway finished.
It won't offend me at all if you'd like to post your results on this thread, that way all of the info is in the same place.
OR, If you want your own thread that's fine too. Just know that you won't be stepping on my toes!
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Old 09-24-2011, 05:48 PM   #69
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Nice job
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:31 PM   #70
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It won't offend me at all if you'd like to post your results on this thread, that way all of the info is in the same place.
OR, If you want your own thread that's fine too. Just know that you won't be stepping on my toes!
Is nice to know there's still cool folks on the forums. If you want you can pm me your ecm values after you install the IM and I can look over the changes (if there are any) for you. Im looking forward to your result.
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