Question for the Pedders folks on recommendations for my forthcoming 2SS

[PatrickfromMD]

I have a question for the Pedders folks. When my new 2SS arrives what might I consider in your suspension offerings to give my new Camaro the edge against what many consider one of the best handling and balanced sedans, the current BMW M3. I don’t want my Camaro to ride so harsh that my daily trip to the office is a miserable one, but I would like to know I can out handle and out accelerate the current 414 HP M3. Of course the HP side of things may be better suited for another thread, but from what I’ve read on this forum, you Pedders guys are the source for making the Camaro a world class handling car (even if its a couple hundred pounds heavier than most of us would have liked). Perhaps provide the minimum suggestion, and a moderate suggestion. One more thing, my preference is a little more rubber on the road, so I would also welcome your thoughts on aftermarket wheel and tire sizes to compliment the suspension (leaning towards widths found on the concept camaro). Your advice is appreciated

[headpunter]

still can't say for sure but either of the street kits from the pedders website ought to be good but we wont know till we get them on the car.

[96CAMaro]

Is the Pedders suspension upgrade really hundreds of pounds heavier?

[headpunter]

Originally Posted by 96CAMaro

Is the Pedders suspension upgrade really hundreds of pounds heavier?

your adding urethane bushings, coilovers, and strut tower braces....what do you think?

[Robert91RS]

Originally Posted by 96CAMaro

Is the Pedders suspension upgrade really hundreds of pounds heavier?

No no no no, he was refering to the weight of the car.

your adding urethane bushings, coilovers, and strut tower braces....what do you think?

Bushings won't increase weight much and depending on what they replace can actually be lighter, braces aren't that heavy and are a fair trade off and the car already has coil overs.

[PatrickfromMD]

I've been thinking the Stage 1 Kit which s primarly bushings,and add springs to lower the car for a meaner look. I'm guessing just under $1000 for parts. Does anyone have any suggestions? Are their parts to take any play out of the sway bars rather than replacing them? I'd still like to have a reasonable ride as I promised the wife she could drive it.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by 96CAMaro

Is the Pedders suspension upgrade really hundreds of pounds heavier?

Only when you have hundreds of car sets being shipped to the warehouse by truck

[JusticePete]

The low hanging fruit on the ZETA or ZETA II platform consists of rear sub-frame inserts and front radius rod bushes. The ZETA II Camaro will deliver with higher rated coils and dampers. These two modifications will deliver maximum impact on minimum dollars.

YouTube Radius Rod Bush Video


Rear Sub Frame OE Bush

The next level gets into subject territory. Based on everything that has been made public by GM and shown publicly by GM the Camaro delivers too tall in ride height. Much of this is due to all kinds of regulations and standards that aftermarket companies are not required to deal with. An example would be collision testing. Lowering a vehicle requires crash testing at the new ride heights. That is a huge expense. Most people that lower their cars could give a hoot if in a parking lot impact the bumper sustaining $1,000 of damage instead of $250 because the bumpers didn't line up with an SUV. They opted for performance. They know what performance cost in terms of parts, labor and parking lot incidents. That is probably why they parked all by themselves 1/2 a mile away from another car.

I digress, the Camaro needs to sit lower to lower the CG. The rate should be higher and the damper should be matched to each other. With the car sitting 35 to 40mm lower the attributes of the ZETA / ZETA II RWD platform really begin to shine. Combine the sub-frame bushes, radius rod bushes, coils and dampers with a street friendly set of Pedders suspension bushes and the Camaro will be every bit the equal in terms of handling to a BMW M3. Jump over to the FI section to elevate it to an M5 killer. Some of the members on this forum have already experienced my Pedderised four door Camaro. They know exactly what I am talking about. You can have an excellant ride quality with mid altering handling.

Stock the 2010 will be the most capable Camaro chassis ever built. Pedderised it almost defies gravity and physics.

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by headpunter

your adding urethane bushings, coilovers, and strut tower braces....what do you think?

You're not "adding" anything. You're replacing. A full track two shouldn't be more than 20-30lbs over stock, and thats with the springs, struts, and sways, if Pedders USA decides to market sways, being heavier than stock. Poly is ounces heavier than rubber, not pounds.

Most aftermarket rims you'll see on Camaros will add more weight than a full suspension from any company.

[PatrickfromMD]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The low hanging fruit on the ZETA or ZETA II platform consists of rear sub-frame inserts and front radius rod bushes. The ZETA II Camaro will deliver with higher rated coils and dampers. These two modifications will deliver maximum impact on minimum dollars.

YouTube Radius Rod Bush Video


Rear Sub Frame OE Bush

The next level gets into subject territory. Based on everything that has been made public by GM and shown publicly by GM the Camaro delivers too tall in ride height. Much of this is due to all kinds of regulations and standards that aftermarket companies are not required to deal with. An example would be collision testing. Lowering a vehicle requires crash testing at the new ride heights. That is a huge expense. Most people that lower their cars could give a hoot if in a parking lot impact the bumper sustaining $1,000 of damage instead of $250 because the bumpers didn't line up with an SUV. They opted for performance. They know what performance cost in terms of parts, labor and parking lot incidents. That is probably why they parked all by themselves 1/2 a mile away from another car.

I digress, the Camaro needs to sit lower to lower the CG. The rate should be higher and the damper should be matched to each other. With the car sitting 35 to 40mm lower the attributes of the ZETA / ZETA II RWD platform really begin to shine. Combine the sub-frame bushes, radius rod bushes, coils and dampers with a street friendly set of Pedders suspension bushes and the Camaro will be every bit the equal in terms of handling to a BMW M3. Jump over to the FI section to elevate it to an M5 killer. Some of the members on this forum have already experienced my Pedderised four door Camaro. They know exactly what I am talking about. You can have an excellant ride quality with mid altering handling.

Stock the 2010 will be the most capable Camaro chassis ever built. Pedderised it almost defies gravity and physics.

Pete your suggestions are very helpful.
Couple of questions: I’d love to see this 4 door Camaro, do you have a link?
You recommend lowered springs with a higher spring rate to compensate. How is the ride, I like the idea of lowering the CG, but would not like a much harsher ride. You mention dampeners, are you referring to the shocks? Are they necessary, I’d like to save those for the next installment if possible.
The rear subframe inserts and radius rod bushings. The parts do not sound expensive, but what about a typical install?”
Lastly I read about the IRS differential needing bushings, is this part of the sub frame inserts, or is this another item to consider.
Ah yes, the FI thread, I saw William offered to race you. You should accept, but only if you pick the track (I’m sure you will choose one with lots of turns hehe)
Oh, one more thing. DO you have suggestions of a wheel and tire size?
The Camaro looks wise, it would seems to like about another inch of width in the front, and perhaps 1.5 to 2 in the rear. What would the chassis like?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by PatrickfromMD

I’d love to see this 4 door Camaro, do you have a link?

Four Door Camaro

Originally Posted by PatrickfromMD

You recommend lowered springs with a higher spring rate to compensate. How is the ride, I like the idea of lowering the CG, but would not like a much harsher ride.

That is the real value of the ZETA / ZETA II architecture. With full Pedders urethane, coils, dampers and sway bars the ride is BMW M or AMG solid but not boy racer harsh. My G8 has coilovers and is dropped over 50mm / 2". A number of Camaro owners have already been in the G8 for demo rides and a few I flipped the keys to (very rare). Not one has mentioned harsh. Typically they say rides great and handles better.

There is more to this than just ZETA and Pedders. Many won't like what I say next, but as we believe it to be true I'll say it anyway. Real race cars weigh less than 2,000 pounds. A F1 at the end of a race must weigh in at 659 KG / 1,400 pounds. It is one of the reasons you see them driving into gravel, to add weight and make sure with the wear on the tires and almost empty fuel tank they meet minimum weight. With a driver in the new Camaro, the car will weigh in at almost three times an F1. The tires on the Camaro would need to be around 30" wide to be comparable.

The same is true in NASCAR. A race ready Car of Tomorrow racing today weighs in at about the 2010 Camaro weight. Compared to F1 a NASCAR is a very very fast street car. It is also under tired -- the tires are too small for the weight, braking HP and RWHP. They eat tires. The harder you spring them, the faster they wear tires. You'll find intentionally coil bound vehicle at NASCAR running for the pole. They are very fast, but setup that way tires won't last.

This is a long winded way of saying that rock hard is not a good setup for most passenger cars driven fast. The tires are too small and not capable of handling the high spring and damping rates. Pedders does not make parts for race cars. Pedders makes street parts that some find work very well in racing applications.

Originally Posted by PatrickfromMD

You mention dampeners, are you referring to the shocks? Are they necessary, I’d like to save those for the next installment if possible.

Being involved with the Aussies has corrupted my automotive vocabulary. Dampers happens to be one of the words I really like to use from down under because it is a more accurate description of function for shock absorbers and struts. Springs absorber shocks. Strut and shock absorbers damp the rate at which the spring responds.

Originally Posted by PatrickfromMD

The rear sub-frame inserts and radius rod bushings. The parts do not sound expensive, but what about a typical install?”

The rear sub-frame bush inserts on a lift are about 90 minutes as are the radius rod bushes.

Originally Posted by PatrickfromMD

Lastly I read about the IRS differential needing bushings, is this part of the sub frame inserts, or is this another item to consider.

There are eight pieces in the sub-frame kit. The differential bushes are a different kit and consists of three bushes.

Originally Posted by PatrickfromMD

Oh, one more thing. DO you have suggestions of a wheel and tire size? The Camaro looks wise, it would seems to like about another inch of width in the front, and perhaps 1.5 to 2 in the rear. What would the chassis like?

My G8 arrived with 19x8 rims and 245/40 tires. We have bumped those up to 19x9.5 with 265/35 XL Micheline Pilot Sport IIs. This required a fender roll in the rear and nothing more than a zip tie to pull in the roto-cast front plastic fender liner even with the about 60mm drop in ride height.

ZETA II has been upgraded to accommodate higher loads from increases in wheel / tire size, bigger brakes and more powerful engines. My GUESS is that the same will be proportionately true with the Camaro.

Originally Posted by PatrickfromMD

Ah yes, the FI thread, I saw William offered to race you. You should accept, but only if you pick the track (I’m sure you will choose one with lots of turns hehe)

I am old and slow behind the wheel so I'll be bumping William Holden for a few car lengths here and there.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Pete is being pretty modest about his G8. Without a doubt, it is the best handling G8 street car in the world. GM Racing aggrees. That is why they will be using our parts on the new GM racing Camaros.

I roadtested Petes G8 and even I was impressed. It sticks big time, and still has lots of streetable comfort, and no squeeks.

G8 has made lots of changes in terms of bolt torq, locktighting bolts, adding supplemental spring wraps during the growth of the G8. The Camaro will seriously benefit from all that has been learned on the G8.

It is going to be very fun ride and Pedders is already ready to make the smile turn into a REALLY big smile and improve your driving confidence and fun.

mike
dms

[PatrickfromMD]

Originally Posted by dms

It is going to be very fun ride and Pedders is already ready to make the smile turn into a REALLY big smile and improve your driving confidence and fun.

mike
dms

Mike, Pete,

I suspect Pedder’s probably cannot talk in detail about the Camaro offerings, but can we assume GM has provided Pedders with everything it needs to develop the Camaro performance parts in parallel with GMs tooling up for production (i.e. like working cars) ? Are you able to provide a date for when full information about your parts will be known, or when they will be available?

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by PatrickfromMD

Mike, Pete,

I suspect Pedder’s probably cannot talk in detail about the Camaro offerings, but can we assume GM has provided Pedders with everything it needs to develop the Camaro performance parts in parallel with GMs tooling up for production (i.e. like working cars) ? Are you able to provide a date for when full information about your parts will be known, or when they will be available?

GM and Pedders have developed a very sound relationship. I only discuss things that have been "cleared" or already anounced by GM. So yes we know a lot more, and no, we cannot disclose all

mike
dms