Canadian Built Camaro, Foreign Cars and US Jobs

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by jfaber99

The only thing I don't understand is why the guy bought a $33,000(and up) Hyundai Genisis if he was having hard times.

Why not an Impala or Malibu? They cost less too!

Heard about the Hyundai initiative that, if you're laid off, Hyundai makes the payments? To someone concerned about their employment, that is a BIG incentive...better than a few buck$ on the bumper! The guy credited with that idea? Joel Ewanick, now the guy in charge of GM marketing...

Alfie, I stopped to have lunch at a diner south of Davison MI a couple weeks ago (not far from Flint, not far from Pontiac/Metro Detroit). While sitting in the window, watching traffic go by on a busy 2-lane road (SR 15) I happened to count the vehicles going by...domestic vs. imports. Over 80% were Detroit 3...in the heartland of US auto manufacturing. I was frankly amazed! Now, if it was like that, everywhere else...

In California, it's just about REVERSED...

[SSLarry]

I applaud everyone who bought a 2010 or 2011 Camaro because its an impractical car and these are very practical, hard times. Just imagine how many muscle cars would have been sold had this been a more impractical period, say 2006.

So bravo to all ! You helped the economy, and according to the OP, you did so very well.

[alfie43]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Alfie, I stopped to have lunch at a diner south of Davison MI a couple weeks ago (not far from Flint, not far from Pontiac/Metro Detroit). While sitting in the window, watching traffic go by on a busy 2-lane road (SR 15) I happened to count the vehicles going by...domestic vs. imports. Over 80% were Detroit 3...in the heartland of US auto manufacturing. I was frankly amazed! Now, if it was like that, everywhere else...

Over 80% were Detroit 3
Wow, your visual calculations are incredibly accurate. The actual figure of domestic auto sales for all of Michigan is 82%.

In California it's reversed.
Yes, I noticed that the last time I was in SoCal. Unbelievable! Talk about being amazed...Southern California; the birthplace of American Hot Rodding, muscle cars, drag racing, "Little Deuce Coupe", and "She's Real Fine My 409".
Beautiful area, but now its "Importland".

I just returned from Washington DC. The ratio of domestic/foreign looks like 5% domestic, 95% import, inside the Belt Way. However, as soon as we left town and headed east to Chesapeake Bay and the Delaware coast, the ratio seemed much more "normal"....maybe 60%- 70% Detroit 3.

Alfie

[jrc1122]

Buying American is great, but should not be a litmus test to determine one's patriotism.
I'm extremely conservative, and Love my home land. But that doesn't mean I think less of someone buying a Hyundai or a Honda is any less patriotic or loving of this great land of ours.

I'm extremely disappointed in GM right now, so if I buy from them, it will likely be used.

[a_Username]

I hate to rain on everyone's parade in here, but protectionism isn't the best course of action; if anything Japan itself has shown us that.

[Keedy]

Originally Posted by a_Username

I hate to rain on everyone's parade in here, but protectionism isn't the best course of action; if anything Japan itself has shown us that.

Educating and encouraging people about the benefits of purchasing american cars isn't an economic policy. This thread isn't about passing laws to force people to buy american, it's talking points and observations about why you should.

[LOWDOWN]

Part of the "patriotism" pledge is that it's getting very difficult to conclusively say what exactly a "domestic" is...

Case in point: Most vehicles manufactured AND sold, in Canada, would be by whom?

Yup...Toyota/Lexus

And this is AFTER Canada/Ontario topped up GM with 17% of the "necessary funding"...

[alfie43]

Originally Posted by Keedy

Educating and encouraging people about the benefits of purchasing american cars isn't an economic policy. This thread isn't about passing laws to force people to buy american, it's talking points and observations about why you should.

Thank you. Yes, I thought I made it clear that my post wasn't about politics or patriotism, but I guess some people don't "listen" very well.
Alfie

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by Keedy

Educating and encouraging people about the benefits of purchasing american cars isn't an economic policy. This thread isn't about passing laws to force people to buy american, it's talking points and observations about why you should.

Well, to an extent you should, but only if they deserve to have your business. I have no problem with being a nationalist, but the fervent nationalists are the ones who cause problems because of some misguided ideology of absolutism. Also, I'm not sure of discussing basic economics is allowed here, but there are differences between economically unviable jobs and jobs just for the hell of it.

[305pride]

Originally Posted by raqball

Oh ya, I know... I guess some people know everything there is to know about everything that can be known in the world (say that 3 times fast)... Met a few of them types in person over the years and plenty of em on the internet....

LOL

To the OP... Nice post....

they are called trolls lol

[8cd03gro]

Buying an american car simply because it is american is counterproductive. If you consistently choose to purchase the product that better fits your needs, and a company (such as GM or Ford) wants your business, they have to be competitive. If everyone is just buying American made cars in the US because they are made in The USA, quality suffers and in turn, global sales suffer. If they don't have to compete to make a buck, the unions take all they can get and less is put into the actual product. I bought a Japanese vehicle because there is nothing American-made even somewhat like it. Had there been, I may have bought it, but not if it isn't the better vehicle. It's not my fault the unions have totally raped our economy. When people with GED's working on an assembly line are making 50k a year + benefits, you are bound to fail. Life just doesn't work that way. The biggest reason we are having a job crisis is because people are spending way beyond their means. If you lose everything to the bank a month after you lose your job, you were living way beyond your means and frankly, you were asking for it. I'm sorry if that offends anyone here, but when people are buying cars that they won't be able to pay off for 15 years, it's no wonder our economy is such trash.

[derklug]

American manufacturing needed a kick in the pants in the 70's. We were building junk and not even caring if it was junk because we had 85% market share. When the oil embargo hit and gas went up to a buck a gallon, people started to buy imports for the fuel economy. They stayed because of the quality. The Big 3 started to respond, but then got used to the new lower limit of market share and went back into cruise control. The 80's offerings let the import market explode, especially in the Luxery class, when people found out that Luxery could still be fun to drive. Ford and GM have made huge gains in quality and desireability, and hopefully the American car buyer will come back. The real question that faces consumers is if buying an American car will also help their bottom line. It is no longer the 60's where everyone knew someone that worked for the Big 3, people need to see what an economic multiplier buying from US automakers really means to their community. Unfortunatly, there are no longer the factories in every town in the US that there used to be.

[nards444]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Buying an american car simply because it is american is counterproductive. If you consistently choose to purchase the product that better fits your needs, and a company (such as GM or Ford) wants your business, they have to be competitive. If everyone is just buying American made cars in the US because they are made in The USA, quality suffers and in turn, global sales suffer. If they don't have to compete to make a buck, the unions take all they can get and less is put into the actual product. I bought a Japanese vehicle because there is nothing American-made even somewhat like it. Had there been, I may have bought it, but not if it isn't the better vehicle. It's not my fault the unions have totally raped our economy. When people with GED's working on an assembly line are making 50k a year + benefits, you are bound to fail. Life just doesn't work that way. The biggest reason we are having a job crisis is because people are spending way beyond their means. If you lose everything to the bank a month after you lose your job, you were living way beyond your means and frankly, you were asking for it. I'm sorry if that offends anyone here, but when people are buying cars that they won't be able to pay off for 15 years, it's no wonder our economy is such trash.

I agree with you on the global economy bit and competition. And I totally agree with you on people living beyond their means, and I would suspect a great deal of camaro owners probably fall into that category. You know just because you can sign a piece of paper and walk away with a car doesnt mean you should, but thats why you see a lot of the cars already being turned in, and guess what the same thing is going to happen when the Z comes out.

I think you fail to realize a couple of things. For one there isnt fair trade between imports and exports between us and Japan or china and Im not just talking the QTY's im talking the actual rules and tariffs. Second off I think we do need to start buying American, there are American products out there that are better than imported goods. I'm all about competition and a global economy but I think the Government has allowed other nations to use us a stomping ground.

[rodscamaro]

Originally Posted by alfie43

I recently posted in a couple of threads that turned into discussions about our domestic cars (GM, Ford, Chrysler) vs foreign cars.

In one thread, the OP posted that he bought a Hyundai Genesis. He also stated that was struggling in the job market. I chided him about the irony of buying a car that is 100% Korean assembled with a 95% foreign made content. I said perhaps his employment picture, and for many other Americans, would be much improved if people like him bought less foreign cars. Of course, I got toasted for that. I was on vacation and couldn't access a computer to fully complete my position.

Before some of you jump in to remind me that the Camaro is made in Canada, read this entire post. Also, I'm not talking about patriotism. I'm not talking about restricting our free market choices. I am not anti-Asian; my father immigrated to this country from the Far-East. The quality gap is history, so that it is no longer part of the discussion. Again, my point is: It's about US JOBS.

As for our Canadian built Camaros; There is more to this story than where a car is assembled. It's about the US jobs that are created and maintained to produced a car regardless of where the final assembly takes place. It's about employment in the parts and components industry; the research, design, engineering, manufacturing and assembly of vehicle content.

GM, Ford and Chrysler employ far more Americans per car than the foreign companies, including the foreign implants that are assembled here. The numbers aren't even close. Here are some figures from the Levelfield Institute. They express their findings as number of jobs created per every 2500 cars produced.

"The JPC Rating (jobs per car) is calculated by dividing the total number of cars sold by an automaker in the U.S. by the company's U.S. workforce. It measures an automaker's contribution to job creation in all areas—research, design, engineering and management—not just assembly jobs. From a simple mathematical perspective, the rating tells you how many U.S. workers a company employs for every 2,500 cars they sell.

For example, Ford employs 89 Americans for every 2,500 cars sold, followed by GM and Chrysler at 78 and 92 respectively. Honda ranks first among the major foreign automakers, but only with a score of 54 followed by Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai/Kia at 51, 38, and 26 respectively.

Why do we count jobs per 2,500 cards sold, rather than for each car sold? Doing so produces whole numbers, which are easier to compare. For example, each Hyundai car supports .01 jobs, while every 2500 cars support 26.

Because Ford, GM and Chrysler conduct far more of their research, design, engineering, manufacturing and assembly work in the U.S. than foreign automakers do, buying a Ford, GM, or Chrysler supports almost three times as many jobs as buying the average foreign automobile. Some comparisons are even more striking. Buying a Ford supports 3.5 times more jobs than buying a Hyundai."

Alfie

I also posted on the same thread you had concerning the Genesis, I didn't want to get into this debate then but you have brought up some good points. Basically, it's just better for the country when you support an American product, especially when the quality is there. I again will never buy a Korean car; it's just out of principal.