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Old 08-02-2015, 12:48 PM   #1
dantemcc

 
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Z/28 Vs GTR... Fair fight?

Just looking for opinions from fellow car enthusiasts or even just from people who can form an opinion on both. Been wanting to drive both of these cars and was thinking of putting an episode together with both cars going at it. But before i went through the pain staking process of even attempting to get both cars and a track, i figured to ask as many people as i can if they think it would be a fair fight. I've seen Motor Trend do it and read about Top Gear doing it as well, but they are on another level than i am.

Obviously, they are in two separate classes. The GTR is built to take on the Z06, Porsche 911 turbo. Where as the Z/28 doesnt really have a rival and or anything to truly compare it to, until the 350R came along. They are clearly two different animals on the road, but on the track somewhat similar. The Z/28 is in essence a street legal track car. where as the GTR is a road car but also excellent on the track. So, if someone came to you and asked your opinion if a Z/28 Vs GTR is a fair fight, you would answer?

Whether its yes or no, let me know why.
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Old 08-02-2015, 12:55 PM   #2
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I have to ask....have you followed the Z/28 reviews and comparison articles? These comparisons have already been made, and they are great competitors with each other.

The Z/28 was compared directly with the GTR and 911 on the track.

GTR and 911 are faster in a straight line of course.
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Old 08-02-2015, 01:00 PM   #3
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Yes, like i said i know professions have done it before. I was looking for more of "everyday person's" opinion, more so than people who get paid to do it. Just because "professionals" say they are and have done it before, doesn't necessarily mean people who aren't professionals would agree.

Do you agree with every comparison "professionals" make?

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Old 08-02-2015, 03:10 PM   #4
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I think it would be interesting to get a less than professional opinion on both cars on the track. Prevailing opinion is that the GTR is more accessible and easier to go faster in than the Z/28.

I have a Z and think thats probably true in reality, but I wouldn't trade one for the other unless there was $75K in the glovebox of the GTR.
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Old 08-02-2015, 03:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimofo View Post
I think it would be interesting to get a less than professional opinion on both cars on the track. Prevailing opinion is that the GTR is more accessible and easier to go faster in than the Z/28.

I have a Z and think thats probably true in reality, but I wouldn't trade one for the other unless there was $75K in the glovebox of the GTR.
Exactly what i was looking for. I want people to give their opinion on what they think, more so relying on what others have said. An individual who isnt a paid professional, has an opinion just as relevant as someone who does. Question though. if the Z and GTR were the same price, would you still take your Z?
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Old 08-02-2015, 03:58 PM   #6
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Same money? Yes. I would take the Z/28 every time.

I prefer n/a engines, and when I want a "fun" car I'll always pick a manual transmission. Now, if the prior model of Nissan Skyline was available I would have to drive and decide a bit to see if it could overcome my innate bias against boosted engines. But for my money, nothing can overcome the lack of a manual gearbox.
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Old 08-02-2015, 05:09 PM   #7
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I was cosidering a GTR when I bought my Z. But I was quickly turned away for quite a few reasons; way too much tech inside the car, expensive service intervals, too much of a road car, it's a V6, turbo$, and from an owner I've talked with, the car didn't have much driver feedback, steering is hard and the car accelerates without much of a sensation of speed.

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Old 08-02-2015, 06:39 PM   #8
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I don't consider these cars to be playing in the same league or even the same sport, at times. They're two completely different machines built to suit two completely different drivers.

I toss the GTR in the same league and class as any other car that is more electronic technology than mechanical technology. There is nothing distinctively magical about the mechanics of the GTR when you look at the components individually. However, how they interact with each other and how they're controlled, make the car so painstakingly effective that the driver really plays very little part in the success or failure of its performance. This car is completely accessible, with all its glory to practically any driver - of course, professionals could irk a bit more out of the car than an amateur but, the amateur could still be a road course hero with very little seat time.

The Z/28 on the other hand, has launch control and stability control in the way of its competitive mode. Outside of that, you're on your own. You're completely shit out of luck if you don't know how to handle the way it tosses it's weight around, it's torque curve or its turn in response. It's an all-motor, no excuses, no forgiveness, no frills machine that offers little outside of a shell hiding a slew of purposeful, mechanically sound and geometrically tuned components meant to engage the driver the moment you stab the throttle. The average driver or amateur will have their hands full but the machine is very capable nonetheless.

They've been compared a bunch but, they really don't match up. Yes, power and weight, they're close. Technology wise, they aren't even on the same page. Let alone the almost $40k price difference.
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Old 08-02-2015, 07:27 PM   #9
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Guess I am the odd one out. I was in search of adding another car to the collection and it was between the three listed here Z/28, GT350R, and a GTR.

Watch this video of the GTR and it addresses some of the issues people on the internet mention:


Also to those that think the GTR does everything for you even Randy Pobst makes mistakes in a GTR, which the internet claims the computers should save you from doing

Long:

Short: 3:50 mark


Guess I can leave this here for those who want to know what I decided on:



and just to show it is mine, I have my name on my Camaro too



I drove it 650 miles home and loved every minute of it, to me I made the right decision and it actually came out cheaper than a Z/28 and quite a bit cheaper than a GT350R. I bought used (one owner, no launches, great maintenance records).

As for maintenance if you research the maintenance behind it is not unheard of nor as expensive as the internet claims. The transmission issue is not a $20,000 fix anymore (early on Nissan did not want to fix small parts so they swapped the entire transmission out) now a rebuild is about $3,000.

But I do believe one has to drive one and not assume that the computer does everything for you. To each their own, I will be tracking this in two weeks and will be loving every minute of it.

However, I cannot make the comparison to the Z/28 nor the GT350R as I have not driven either of those cars. I can only compare it to my Camaro with the modifications I have made. So with that I am not saying the GTR is for everyone, I just chose it over the Z/28 and the GT350R and I made the right decision for me.
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Old 08-02-2015, 09:18 PM   #10
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By no means is the GTR infallible but to dismiss the level of intervention the electronic assistance the car displays is borderline fanboy-ism. Good on you that you bought the car you want but it isn't so easy to dismiss the internet naysayers, if you will. The car has a reputation for a reason. Randy is a very capable driver but if you push any car to its absolute limits, it will still falter. The problem I think you may be overlooking, is where those limits are. They are far beyond where the average driver can go without that kind of assistance. Turn all the nannies and launch control off and the car doesn't behave like GTR everyone loves to hate. But how many average drivers of GTR's really do that?

Don't get me wrong, it's a great car and Nissan should be absolutely proud of what they achieved but the fans are awfully boastful and that irks me incesitently - especially when the cards are stacked in their deck, until it's not, then the excuses fly.
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Old 08-03-2015, 09:07 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFS197 View Post
By no means is the GTR infallible but to dismiss the level of intervention the electronic assistance the car displays is borderline fanboy-ism. Good on you that you bought the car you want but it isn't so easy to dismiss the internet naysayers, if you will. The car has a reputation for a reason. Randy is a very capable driver but if you push any car to its absolute limits, it will still falter. The problem I think you may be overlooking, is where those limits are. They are far beyond where the average driver can go without that kind of assistance. Turn all the nannies and launch control off and the car doesn't behave like GTR everyone loves to hate. But how many average drivers of GTR's really do that?

Don't get me wrong, it's a great car and Nissan should be absolutely proud of what they achieved but the fans are awfully boastful and that irks me incesitently - especially when the cards are stacked in their deck, until it's not, then the excuses fly.
Oh I'm not saying I'm not a fanboy but I'm also a fanboy of the Z/28 as well. I just try to say drive the car before you come to a conclusion based on electronics or lack of a manual transmission. It's the way most manufacturers are going these days.

And I'm not doubting there are a ton of electronic aids in the GTR. I am just saying that it is not all about the computers and there is still joy in driving a GTR. Just like Ferraris with a lot of tech you can always turn everything off.

As the pros have already pitted them head to head and on certain tracks the Z/28 comes out ahead, whereas others the GTR does. Is it close in either direction yes, are they both great cars, I think so.

Most car guys that I know that do track the GTR do turn everything off, I plan too after my first track day with the car just so I know how the car handles in comparison to my lines with the Camaro. But do others not, yes. Some even leave it in automatic and let the car shift itself around.

Yes I do agree with you and I am not overlooking that you can go faster easier in the GTR than other cars. I just don't understand how people say they don't have an acceleration feeling. It's there, the reason I think people don't feel it because you get to speed so fast that your brain is slow to understand how fast you are until you look down and are slamming the brake doing

Would I take a Z/28 sure, but I chose the GTR because for the price I got mine it could not be beat. Plus I wanted something different instead of having two Camaros in the garage.

Also the looks, waves, thumbs up, people trying to make you race them is unbelievable.

But to answer is the Z/28 vs GTR fair in terms of anything? Depends on the event.

MSRP new: Z/28: $75k Z/28 vs $101k GTR
MSRP used: Z/28: $57k Z/28 vs $58k '10 GTR (prices picked from AutoTrader and first one for sale for each by a dealer)
HP: by numbers GTR: Z/28 505hp compared to 480-545 pending MY or 600 for the Nismo
Torque: Z/28 481 compared to 430-463 pending MY or 481 for the Nismo
Weight: basically the same 3820 for the Z/28 3830 for the GTR
Short track: Z/28
Long track: GTR
Braking: Z/28
Top Speed/Drag/Mile/Roll: GTR
Car show: probably the Z/28 since most don't know what a GTR is
Rarity: tie, you don't see many of either
Confusion: tie, lots of people will think the Z/28 is just another Camaro/Mustang/Challenger and people just have no idea what the GTR is
Loudness: Z/28
Driver feedback: Z/28 in terms of a manual gearbox but the GTRs transmission is loud and talks to you so you can feel it working
MPG: depending how you drive and power output GTR, basically the same size tank
Wheels: both forged but Z/28: Z/28 19s vs GTR 20s
Tires: Z/28: Z/28 Trofeos vs GTR Dunlops
Ability to seat 4: tie they both 'can'
Cooling issues: GTR in stock form
Trunk space: haven't tested the GTR yet but I can fit one 20x11 315 wheel/tire in my Camaro trunk and some smaller items around it. GTR should be able to fit a little more, will try later this week

Lots of comparison and that's good between the Z/28 and the GTR. The Z/28 hit against a car in a bracket above itself. Just like the GTR does to double and beyond it's bracket.

Bottom line the most basic conclusion the same driver will decide based on which is going to be more fun to drive for whatever they are going to do.

All I am saying is that just because the internet says the GTR is not fun to drive, try one out before you fall into that category even if you do not mean to.

Again I love both cars, even the GT350R (good luck finding an allocation/paying MSRP). I am a car guy at heart and not a brand loyalist. I still love the Camaro line but I also love the GTR series.
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Old 08-03-2015, 12:56 PM   #12
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lack of a manual transmission

But see, thats a key ingredient of what makes a fun car for a lot of people. Track times are for benchracers and people getting paid real money to win races. It sells magazines and fuels internet arguments and is worth little else.

And if someone wants to pay me real money to win them some races, sure, hook me up with a dual clutch paddle shifter. But when I'm spending my own money for what is essentially a toy, whose sole purpose is fun, I don't care how "technically superior" something else might be. You could cook me the most technically excellent chicken on the planet, but if I wanted steak...

In the words of my motorcycling mentor, you gotta buy what gets your... hard. Especially when it comes to toys.
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Old 08-03-2015, 01:13 PM   #13
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Different strokes for different folks. Thats what makes the car community great.

I just wouldn't throw the whole car out based on the transmission. It's like the auto vs manual ZL1 guys on the forum who can argue either way.
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Old 08-03-2015, 01:30 PM   #14
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I think a Z/28 vs GT-R comparison would be entertaining, but there's another more difficult comparison that I'd really like to see done. The Z/28 isn't Chevy's flagship model, and it's track focused with n/a power, a manual transmission, and a lot of suspension work. You know what else fits that description? The Cayman GT4. I'd really like to see those two throw down.
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