01-17-2013, 05:44 PM | #127 |
Drives: Florida Speed & Power Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pinellas Park, FL
Posts: 3,185
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I have zl1 pump and BAP with no issues and I am close 700rwhp on a mustang dyno.
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01-18-2013, 12:19 AM | #128 |
Seeking 9s on M6...
Drives: 2012 2SS/RS LS3 aka "BlackWidow" Join Date: May 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 397
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After further review, I think i'm good. I did some hard pulls tonight and AFR looks great and all my other vitals are matching pre-ZL1 fuel pump. I'm going to assume it is normal for pressure to drop at WOT to around 48psi. The only thing that bugs me is the FP commanded DC...I'm locked in at 99.6%. I did notice the Whipple tune changed the DC to 99%...I backed that down to 90%, however logger is still showing 99.6%. Any ideas what's pushing it to 99.6? I disabled my BAP, so i'm running the straight ZL1 fuel pump.
Unless someone has a suggestion for me to check, I'm going to live with it... I'm starting my cam install next weekend!
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01-18-2013, 10:43 AM | #129 | ||
Booooosted.
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But I just don't like the 48psi on the FP drop. I've been told that it's at the edge of dangerous. What did your guys say? |
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01-19-2013, 12:51 AM | #130 | |
Seeking 9s on M6...
Drives: 2012 2SS/RS LS3 aka "BlackWidow" Join Date: May 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 397
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If i understand what I've been reading...Inj Delta + Boost = Desired FP. When you are not in boost, there is a vacuum, so the Inj Delta is > 58 by the amount of vacuum. For example: Boost = -12, so Inj Delta = 70 (70 - 12 = 58). At this point, no boost, so FP holds steady at "Des FP = 58". Inj Delta reads 70 due to the vacuum, however the rail pressure remains 58 (as desired). When you are in boost, it changes...now the rail is getting pressure from both the Manifold and the fuel pump. The goal to maintain 58psi in the rail...so the fuel pump has to reduce pressure to compensate for the boost . I see my Inj delta match up with FP at 0psi, when i go into boost the FP starts to reduce pressure to maintain 58psi in the rail. So when i get to 13psi of boost, the FP has to back down 13psi (result 45 psi). This would explain why i see no difference w/my BAP on the ZL1 pump... because it doesn't need it. It is maintaining 58psi at the rail w/o the BAP. It would also explain why my AFR stays rich throughout my pull. If my new theory is right, then PQ running 48psi @ 7.5psi is actually maintaining 55.5psi of pressure in the rail... I think this makes sense, but it would be nice for someone w/a clue to confirm. The only thing it doesn't explain is why the duty cycle on my pump stays at 99.6%...has to be something in the whipple tune i'm missing.
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01-19-2013, 05:08 PM | #131 | |
Booooosted.
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Hmmmmm.......... interesting. Yes, can someone confirm? I do know that a liquid compresses differently than air. So I don't know if this is plausible..... ??? But it's definitely thread worthy if we can learn something. |
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01-19-2013, 06:45 PM | #132 |
Seeking 9s on M6...
Drives: 2012 2SS/RS LS3 aka "BlackWidow" Join Date: May 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 397
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Here is my reference material i referred too...Boost-a-pump theorly explained (unfortunately it is focused on Ford): http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/C...heory_kens.pdf
It states Fuel Rail Presure - Manifold Pressure = Nozzle outlet pressure (or Delta Pressure). So I can only assume the PID for FP SAE on the Camaro is missleading as I don't think it is an indication of pressure at the fuel rail. My inj delta pressure is 45psi @ 13psi of boost, so my Fuel Rail Presure has to be 58psi. Right? I may go buy an analog fuel rail pressure gauge just to confirm...not sure yet how i'll read it at 100mph
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01-19-2013, 08:04 PM | #133 |
Emerald Coast Camaros
Drives: 2010 2SS 6m Join Date: Mar 2010
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It's pretty simple really-
I use: [PID.6512.PSI]-([PID.51.PSI]-[PID.11.PSI]) In other words: Rail_Pressure = Delta_Pressure_Injector-(Atmospheric_Pressure - MAP_Pressure) I won't get into the crappy choice of variable names, but essentially Rail_Pressure is that 58psi goal the fuel system aspires to keep by varying Delta_Pressure_Injector for the conditions of Atmospheric_Pressure and MAP_Pressure. This should be obvious when you consider a normally aspirated car at WOT: MAP values approach atmospheric and that term on the right gets very close to zero, and the data logs will show that Delta_Pressure_Injector get very close to 58 psi HP Tuner variables can automatically switch to a desired units by specifying the units after the PID in programming struct fashion, ie - variable.<units>, which is important in this case because we always look at MAP and atmospheric pressure values in kPa, but for fuel, we look at lbf/in2.
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01-20-2013, 01:05 AM | #134 | |
Booooosted.
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01-20-2013, 01:07 AM | #135 |
Booooosted.
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Sorry, had to. lol I started a thread about it. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271998 |
01-20-2013, 09:45 AM | #136 | |
SIP
Drives: 2011 1SS, L99, A6 , Silver Ice Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
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11-27-2013, 10:53 AM | #137 |
Seeking 9s on M6...
Drives: 2012 2SS/RS LS3 aka "BlackWidow" Join Date: May 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 397
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I don't remember if this was ever summed up, but my quick summary is if you install a supercharger on a SS, your fuel pressure will not be able to keep up. My experience is the BAPs are useless with the stock SS FPCM. I saw the same fuel pressure results whether it was on or not.
My personal results: - BAP is useless on our SS cars - The stock FP will drop for every # of boost...i.e. when I made 12# boost, my FP dropped to 46#. - The ZL1 FP w/Andy's ADM FPCM resolved my fuel pressure issues. Hold a stead 58# now. Andy recommends a more robust fuel system above 750 rwhp, but i'm still running this solution today at ~850 rwhp (manual) with no drops in pressure.
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11-27-2013, 12:26 PM | #138 |
@fabSSbuild on IG
Drives: 2012 Twin Turbo Super Sport Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
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Would a ZL1 FP with a MSD BAP (together) give similar results as above?
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11-27-2013, 12:48 PM | #139 |
Seeking 9s on M6...
Drives: 2012 2SS/RS LS3 aka "BlackWidow" Join Date: May 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 397
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I think Andy told me the BAP would work with his fpcm, but I never saw the need. There is no reason to have a BAP unless your FP isn't able to maintain pressure. I personally wouldn't recommend a BAP for any gen 5.
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11-27-2013, 02:50 PM | #140 | |
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Honestly FPCM is simple to install aswell, plug and play then send it off to get tuned...to easy. I have a zl1 pump & FPCM and my fuel pressure is great with 11lbs of boost and 640hp/639tq rw. I also heard of running a BAP, zl1 pump, and FPCM without problem. My tuner said no need.
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2017 ZL1 A10: Previously FBO 756/761 (9.6 @ 143 1/4) SOLD-2013 ZL1 M6:BTR,LTs,IDs,ATI,RotoFab10.84@129 SOLD-2011 SS M6: Blower, Cam, Alky, LTs. |
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