[BamBam2SS]

When I bought the Camaro there was paint issues back in December so they repainted the quarter panels, A pillars, roof, trunk lid and spoiler. At purchase I bought their xzilon coating stuff but held off on having it applied because I had to wait 60 days for the clear bra to get applied.

Finally got it applied and the black paint sparkled with swirl marks, 4 more times over 3 days the detailer tried to get the swirls out. In bringing so much attention to the paint I found over spray on the door about a 3"x2" section just below the driver side mirror, then a scratch SS outline from when I requested they remove the rear bumper emblem.

After talking to the detailer he didn't know the difference in microfiber towels and told me no matter what he does it will swirl... so I met with the manager today, he saw everything and I showed him the difference in towels too to where he said "we've had a problem with swirl marks so we usually just have an outside body shop buff them out" and took a picture of the towel.

So I got this email today...

Good afternoon Alan,

I've tried to call you a few times this afternoon but your phone is ringing busy. I thought is was our phone system but was able to dial my cel#.

We need to get your Camaro back to the dealership and get the swirl marks buffed out as well as pay attention to the spot where the SS emblem was located. I have confirmed the detail department has the appropriate towels and compounds to remove any swirl marks.

Once completed, you will need to "sign off" on the absence of swirl marks before taking the vehicle. At that point, we can no longer be responsible for any future marks/scratches/etc.

I haven't replied yet because if I keep finding their mistakes after they repainted the car, then I'll be crap out of luck.

Any advice?

[Lashu74]

Oh man what a shit show...I would be super hesitant to sign anything because they could easily use a filler to mask the swirls car could look great and then after it gets washed a few times and the filler begins to fade your gonna notice the marks again only now your not gonna have any recourse. Your kinda stuck...what about telling them you want to take it somewhere to have it professionally done and have them reimburse you the cost then sign off. All of a sudden they now have the rags and equipment to get it done sounds like BS to me. Good luck bud.

[Ian SS]

I would only sign the waiver after having the car inspected thoroughly by a 3rd party professional detail shop.

[stook2001]

Out of the box idea for you...

Get them to refund the cost of the Xzilon coating and take the car to a real detailer that knows what they are doing. They probably would like to be done with you at this point so maybe a win-win. I have no idea what Xzilon is but there are some stellar long-term sealants and coatings available now that are probably way better than whatever that stuff is.

To answer your actual question, I get the point from both perspectives. I too would fear that they'll use a filler to hide the swirl marks. Dealers do this all the time. On the other hand, their argument is that it is REALLY easy to mar the finish of the car just by washing it, even very carefully. You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere and they can't be responsible for future swirl marks once everyone agrees that it is ok. Anyway, my view with detailing is that the dealer is not a detailer. Yes, they have someone on the staff that cleans up cars and preps them for sale but most of these guys are looking to bang out cars fast and are not even trying to achieve what you want, which is a swirl free "perfect" finish. If this is what you want, you need to use someone who's business it is to detail cars OR do it yourself.

[nbryant]

Originally Posted by stook2001

Out of the box idea for you...

Get them to refund the cost of the Xzilon coating and take the car to a real detailer that knows what they are doing. They probably would like to be done with you at this point so maybe a win-win. I have no idea what Xzilon is but there are some stellar long-term sealants and coatings available now that are probably way better than whatever that stuff is.

To answer your actual question, I get the point from both perspectives. I too would fear that they'll use a filler to hide the swirl marks. Dealers do this all the time. On the other hand, their argument is that it is REALLY easy to mar the finish of the car just by washing it, even very carefully. You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere and they can't be responsible for future swirl marks once everyone agrees that it is ok. Anyway, my view with detailing is that the dealer is not a detailer. Yes, they have someone on the staff that cleans up cars and preps them for sale but most of these guys are looking to bang out cars fast and are not even trying to achieve what you want, which is a swirl free "perfect" finish. If this is what you want, you need to use someone who's business it is to detail cars OR do it yourself.

Well said Stook. From what I understand the Xzilon was initially developed by the airline industry to protect the leading edges and surfaces on their aircraft. Like you noted though there are comparable products on the market today that we owners can easily apply. I would only add, respectfully, is that if your expectations are a totally swirl free surface you may be expecting to much. If by chance they did achieve it and you leave the dealership satisfied you will soon encounter them again somewhere down the road just from your own maintenance on the car.

[Glen e]

It's really impossible , unless you have a car kept in a collection, to get it to be 100% absolutely swirl free all the time. I agree, I can see their side, because you could swirl the car on the first wash, done incorrectly.. Using the car is going to create some surface imperfections. However using a orbital and a finishing polish once a year is going to keep it to a minimum, then a maintenance use of a polymer sealant or wax every 6-9 months is more than enuf.

And if you're paranoid that they used some type of filler, that's easily rectifiable at the time you take delivery. Just take some 50/50 alcohol/water and wipe down one place that had the swirls, and see if they reappear. The alcohol/water will take off any filler or anything else.

[stook2001]

Originally Posted by nbryant

Well said Stook. From what I understand the Xzilon was initially developed by the airline industry to protect the leading edges and surfaces on their aircraft. Like you noted though there are comparable products on the market today that we owners can easily apply. I would only add, respectfully, is that if your expectations are a totally swirl free surface you may be expecting to much. If by chance they did achieve it and you leave the dealership satisfied you will soon encounter them again somewhere down the road just from your own maintenance on the car.

That was kind of the point that I was trying to make, which is why I put "perfect" in quotes. It's a bit of a fools errand, in my view, to try to permanently have no swirl marks. The best you can do is to be as careful as possible and even then it's bound to happen. My car just turned 3k miles a few weeks ago. I did a 2 stage cut / polish on the car after I bought it at 100 miles or so and sealed it with the new version of opticoat, which is considered to be a semi-permanent modern coating. Guess what? Noticed some swirl marks the other day. Not terrible by any stretch but it happens.

I also did a quick search on the detailing forums about Xzilon because you peaked my curiosity. No clue what the charge is for the product but it seems like you are paying more for the warranty (which has strings attached) than for the quality of the product. The product itself seems to be the equivalent of an average "sealant", not a modern "coating", for those familiar with these ranges of products. This isnt something that I'd be interested in paying for... Again, no idea on the cost, but I think money is better spent maintaining the paint with a pro detailer annually and/or investing in pro level gear for yourself.

[BamBam2SS]

I've reached out to the lemon law attorney that represented me with my 370z and my dad on his BMW... Waiting for a response.

And I've also reached out to Chevrolet Corporate, Also waiting on a response...

I'm fully aware that swirl marks will happen, I've had 4 black cars previously (including the 370z). But I found it's easier to maintain the car than it is to get rid of the swirl marks that are already there... The 370z had a few but it was not nearly as bad as this.

These were caused by the dealership, the over spray on the door was caused by the dealership when they repainted half the car, the scratches on the bumper that say "SS" was caused by this same dealership when they took off the SS emblem... I don't want to sign off on something releasing them of future liability in case I find more of their mistakes.

The paint isn't the only thing they've messed up on...

When I had the door rattle TSB done, Someone stabbed the passenger seat with a screw driver on the side... They didn't say anything, The driver side door panel no longer sits flush against the door (It looks like it's missing a few clips).

When they were getting to the headliner to take off the antenna for paint they put a 4" crack on the panel around the left rear quarter window, tore the tint and clawed up the edges trying to take it off... and again, They didn't say anything... They fixed it after I pointed it out but now the rear deck panel rattles with the stereo.

I finally decided, I don't trust this dealership anymore and don't think they should be let off the hook for future damage that is caused by them... Especially now suddenly the detailer is confident he can fix the swirls they caused which they couldn't do the 4 other times they tried.

[KyWildcats]

If you just bought this car you need to speak to the owner. Tell him you want a new car that this is crazy. You should not have to worry about it. I am a car salesman trust me do whatever it takes to get to the owner he or she will make it right. Sales managers do not want to take on any cost to a vehicle that has been sold because it comes off their bottom line. Raise 20x of hell I know I would.

[BamBam2SS]

I bought it at the end of November, I just hit 3K miles on it last weekend.

[Slem]

This reminds me of when my brother bought his C6, he picked it up in the evening and while raining, next day after he washed it he saw swirls all over and a scratch in the hood, it was actually horrible, so he gave the dealership a chance to fix it while we watched and it made no difference, it still looked like shit. I ended up wet sanding the entire car and polished it to a mirror. He ended up getting a 2k cheque from the dealership for all his trouble. He got this chq because he contacted the owner and explained everything to him.

[Slem]

Also I will add this, I have come to the conclusion it's not worth bringing your car to any dealership for anything unless it's a extreamly importantant recall that can cause death or that can destroy your engine ( driveline ) other then that it's not worth taking a chance because most of the time something always get damaged on your vehicle or it comes back with more issues then it went in for.

[classicrockr]

All they're asking you to do is sign off that you're satisfied with it once you actually are. Doesn't seem too unreasonable, especially since they've made mistakes. They just want you to acknowledge when they finally get it right.

But, having someone else (like from a body shop) with you when you inspect would be a good idea.

[Sunsnare98]

just sign it after they fix it. They just don't want to be bothered by you anymore.