Camaro Z/28 Nurburgring time = 7:37.47 !! [VIDEO]

[RLHMARINES]

Any idea of when the team will be back at the ring for some more testing and timed runs? Production is in the early CTF stages I believe.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Why is it ridicuous and mind numbing to compare 2 track cars on equal tires?
Since you've brought up the LSA: why doesn't Z/28 have more power? Either tricked LS7 or LSA? If it had, there would be no debate. And for those that think LSA type motor is unsuitable for track: what is it doing in the ultimate track car (Z06)?

It's there because of government regulations, not because supercharged engines are best for track cars.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Agree! But you can't buy a z/28 with more power, yet you can buy a ZL1 with Z/28 rim/tires from GM. So it would be even faster in the straights and possibly as fast in the corners. So the lap time could very well be faster. At least in theory (as that's all we have to debate).

In other words, you want to be able to compare a ZL1 . . . against a mirror image of itself (albeit with a different badge)? What would be the point?

Originally Posted by TrackClub

And for those that think LSA type motor is unsuitable for track: what is it doing in the ultimate track car (Z06)?

An LSA-type motor is a less suitable 'fit' for the Z/28. Forced induction, particularly as applied to U.S. domestic cars is about most anything but road course use. If anything, it co-opts a handling/momentum sort of car toward being just another acceleration-based "point and shoot" car.

Time and user experience will tell how well forced induction works out in the Z06 - keeping in mind that extra mass up high and up front is not normally considered a step in the right direction for handling taken by itself. Somehow I doubt that the Z06 is getting special dispensation from the principles of physics.


Norm

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

It's there because of government regulations, not because supercharged engines are best for track cars.

Good point! LT1 appears to be very economical and well suited to power gains in NA fashion (550HP with CAI, headers/pipes and tune). Next gen should see some nice motor choices.

[JusticePete]

The 5th Gen is very sensitive to nose weight. NA was and is the correct choice.

What we have in the Z/28 is an incredibly competent vehicle with capabilities that exceed available RWHP.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

In other words, you want to be able to compare a ZL1 . . . against a mirror image of itself (albeit with a different badge)? What would be the point?



An LSA-type motor is a less suitable 'fit' for the Z/28. Forced induction, particularly as applied to U.S. domestic cars is about most anything but road course use. If anything, it co-opts a handling/momentum sort of car toward being just another acceleration-based "point and shoot" car.

Time and user experience will tell how well forced induction works out in the Z06 - keeping in mind that extra mass up high and up front is not normally considered a step in the right direction for handling taken by itself. Somehow I doubt that the Z06 is getting special dispensation from the principles of physics.


Norm

Stock Z/28 vs stock ZL1 with optional recaros and rims/r-comps. The only mirror image would be the shoes.

Agree on the FI vs NA debate. Yet records wise, FI cars have done very well at the Ring incl ZR1. Heck, I think the ZL1 Ring time was incredible given its weight and tires. Most amazing, the car looked incredibly poised throughout the run, with a driver needing almost no corrections. It almost looked "too relaxed" LOL! I think its 3rd gen MRC suspension provides for an amazing range of capabilities, inlc superb track handling. No surprise it made it into the C7. Having said that I am looking fwd to the Z/28 returning for a fair weather run, as the last min of its recorded run was rather horrific (anybody that says GM engineers " can't drive", pls watch this video!).

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Stock Z/28 vs stock ZL1 with optional recaros and rims/r-comps. The only mirror image would be the shoes.

Agree on the FI vs NA debate. Yet records wise, FI cars have done very well at the Ring incl ZR1. Heck, I think the ZL1 Ring time was incredible given its weight and tires. Most amazing, the car looked incredibly poised throughout the run, with a driver needing almost no corrections. It almost looked "too relaxed" LOL! I think its 3rd gen MRC suspension provides for an amazing range of capabilities, inlc superb track handling. No surprise it made it into the C7. Having said that I am looking fwd to the Z/28 returning for a fair weather run, as the last min of its recorded run was rather horrific (anybody that says GM engineers " can't drive", pls watch this video!).

No one is saying that F/I cars can't run fast times but that doesn't mean a supercharged engine is optimal for racing. Don't forget, the Z06/Z07 was only 3 or 4 seconds slower than the ZR1 despite being down 133 horsepower.

7:19.63 for the ZR1 and 7:22.68 for the Z06/Z07.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

In other words, you want to be able to compare a ZL1 . . . against a mirror image of itself (albeit with a different badge)? What would be the point?

Exactly.

An LSA-type motor is a less suitable 'fit' for the Z/28. Forced induction, particularly as applied to U.S. domestic cars is about most anything but road course use. If anything, it co-opts a handling/momentum sort of car toward being just another acceleration-based "point and shoot" car.

Exactly Again.

Time and user experience will tell how well forced induction works out in the Z06 - keeping in mind that extra mass up high and up front is not normally considered a step in the right direction for handling taken by itself. Somehow I doubt that the Z06 is getting special dispensation from the principles of physics.


Norm

Thanks!

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The 5th Gen is very sensitive to nose weight. NA was and is the correct choice.

What we have in the Z/28 is an incredibly competent vehicle with capabilities that exceed available RWHP.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Stock Z/28 vs stock ZL1 with optional recaros and rims/r-comps. The only mirror image would be the shoes.

Putting a set of R comps on the ZL1 does not set the cars up for a direct comparison to the Z/28. The Z/28 runs a square setup with 305/30/19s. The wheel and tire package lowers the Z/28 without changing the suspension geometry.

The Z/28 and ZL1 are very different cars from the weight to suspension to RWHP. The ZL1 is power dependent. The Z/28 is momentum dependent. The Z/28 brakes later, carries higher speed into the corners, mid-corner and exit speed. The Z/28 runs out of power on the straights. Drop a built LS7 into the Z/28 ad it will be amazing on the ring. I spoke with some GM people related to the project asking if they couldn't find a heads, cam and tune package in-house for the next run at the Ring...

You can add all the RWHP you want to either version of the Camaro Z. Anything over 630 at the rear wheels is unusable on a road course with a 305. The Z/28 is overbuilt for 505 at the crank. The weight, lower CG, brakes and aero on the Z/28 are a huge advantage to the Z/28. A pulley and tune get the ZL1 close to the ideal RWHP number, but weight, the location of the weight, and CG work against it.

[JoeP@TeamBeckyD]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

.....

^^^^

[tramtwo]

Originally Posted by BeckyD@RodgersChevrolet

^^^^

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

No one is saying that F/I cars can't run fast times but that doesn't mean a supercharged engine is optimal for racing. Don't forget, the Z06/Z07 was only 3 or 4 seconds slower than the ZR1 despite being down 133 horsepower.

7:19.63 for the ZR1 and 7:22.68 for the Z06/Z07.

Yep the z06 was incredibly fast (20 seconds faster then a previous run).
And that was a truly awesome accomplishment. ZR1 is about 200lb heavier, but more power and still top dog. But not by much.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Putting a set of R comps on the ZL1 does not set the cars up for a direct comparison to the Z/28. The Z/28 runs a square setup with 305/30/19s. The wheel and tire package lowers the Z/28 without changing the suspension geometry.

The Z/28 and ZL1 are very different cars from the weight to suspension to RWHP. The ZL1 is power dependent. The Z/28 is momentum dependent. The Z/28 brakes later, carries higher speed into the corners, mid-corner and exit speed. The Z/28 runs out of power on the straights. Drop a built LS7 into the Z/28 ad it will be amazing on the ring. I spoke with some GM people related to the project asking if they couldn't find a heads, cam and tune package in-house for the next run at the Ring...

You can add all the RWHP you want to either version of the Camaro Z. Anything over 630 at the rear wheels is unusable on a road course with a 305. The Z/28 is overbuilt for 505 at the crank. The weight, lower CG, brakes and aero on the Z/28 are a huge advantage to the Z/28. A pulley and tune get the ZL1 close to the ideal RWHP number, but weight, the location of the weight, and CG work against it.

Didn't mean to imply both cars would be the same. Indeed they are very different animals. I just get an allergic reaction to folks saying one is faster by 3 seconds without taking tires into consideration. Kinda like "cheating" in my book anyway.
And I am exstatic with your mention of extra power for the Z28. Now we are talking! Get it close to 600, yet NA, and it will be worth every penny and nothing comparable will touch it. It is more difficult to drive a monentum car IMO. Takes a lot more skill from a driver. An average folk will be slow (without the extra power). Unless they switched from a Bimmer Good posts and very informative - thank you!