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Old 02-23-2014, 09:21 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Camaro Dude View Post
A proper "tuning house", like RUF for Porsche, Hartge for BMW, Brabus for Mercedes, and a bunch of others, tune the rest of the car as well, in order to compensate for the rest of the insane power increases. More often than not, they will turn in quicker times on the Nurburgring.

You all know what an entry level C-Class Mercedes is. Well, Brabus makes one called the Bullit Coupé, rated at close to 800HP, 3 seconds to 60mph, 230 mph top speed, and yes, limited production. This is insane for an entry level family coupe. Just like the Callaway for the privileged few who do not want to complain, and just enjoy a limited production toy. I doubt anyone on the Mercedes forums are complaining at Brabus.

My point and question is, did Callaway simply drop the SC in their and call it a day, and if that's what they truly did, is it because the car was balanced allowing for little more room to play with with SC? It's not uncommon for tuners to work with manufacturers you know, Alpina case in point with BMW.

Just asking', did Callaway get sloppy here, or do they really know what they are doing, working closely with GM, just like some Euro tuners do with their respective motherships?
The difference is the C class as you said is entry level not a factory special make.
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:22 PM   #58
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The difference is the C class as you said is entry level not a factory special make.
I re edited my quote, re-read it, I added the word "chassis".

There is AMG C class, which is sold at your local Mercedes dealer

Brabus takes it one step further.

I might be wrong, but the same parallels are there imho.

The point is, is Calloway a world class tuning house yes or no? Do they know what they are doing?

Will still love to see the Calloway Z28 on the ring, and I'm sure that we will, to refute all these debates.
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:28 PM   #59
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There is AMG C class is sold at your local Mercedes dealer Brabus takes it one step further.

I might be wrong, but the same parallels are there imho.
I understand. However the AMG car isn't that special, like a Black series.

I do get what you're saying...my point is made in post #53.
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:32 PM   #60
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I have enjoyed and have no regrets completing the mods on my SS however, if I were fortunate enough to have a Z28, it would remain completely stock. If any Gen5 owners will have the chance at making some money in the future, it will be the Z28 owners.
YOU say that but just look how many Z28 have been made since they first came into production,compared to the ZL1...There is way more Z28 badged cars on the road..Yes this is one oF the best Z28's but the 69-71 Z28's were also a big deal back in the day...They will most likely stop the ZL1 production long before the Z28...Also later down the road the Z28 will still come around again while it may or may not be as track reaDY OF A CAR BUT gm HAS ALWAYS HAd A z28 IN THE MIX..
my money says any gen5 ZL1 or Z28 with less than 5k on the clock,and in mint condition 20yrs from now will be worth as much or more than new..If C.A.F.E does like some say these car wont be around again,they will wont be any Gas powered 550-650hp factory cars any longer,as the factory will have a target MPG of 85-90mpg...As thanks to the pres he already wants 54.4 mpg by 2025 instaed of the current 27mpg we have right now..so say good bye to these cars by 2035..lol good luck....wow I cant even believe i am thinking that far ahead growing up in the 7-'s and 80's..LOL
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:49 PM   #61
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YOU say that but just look how many Z28 have been made since they first came into production,compared to the ZL1...There is way more Z28 badged cars on the road..Yes this is one oF the best Z28's but the 69-71 Z28's were also a big deal back in the day...They will most likely stop the ZL1 production long before the Z28...Also later down the road the Z28 will still come around again while it may or may not be as track reaDY OF A CAR BUT gm HAS ALWAYS HAd A z28 IN THE MIX..
my money says any gen5 ZL1 or Z28 with less than 5k on the clock,and in mint condition 20yrs from now will be worth as much or more than new..If C.A.F.E does like some say these car wont be around again,they will wont be any Gas powered 550-650hp factory cars any longer,as the factory will have a target MPG of 85-90mpg...As thanks to the pres he already wants 54.4 mpg by 2025 instaed of the current 27mpg we have right now..so say good bye to these cars by 2035..lol good luck....wow I cant even believe i am thinking that far ahead growing up in the 7-'s and 80's..LOL
This Z/28 is FAR FAR above and beyond previous ones. What does it really need to fit its purpose? More: Brakes? Suspension? Aero?
I'll say more power is understandable when you consider today's 600+ HP super-cars. Plus the Z/28 has the chassis, brakes and aero that are able to accept more power. However adding a SC just doesn't fit it's MO.
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:33 PM   #62
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YOU say that but just look how many Z28 have been made since they first came into production,compared to the ZL1...There is way more Z28 badged cars on the road..Yes this is one oF the best Z28's but the 69-71 Z28's were also a big deal back in the day...They will most likely stop the ZL1 production long before the Z28...Also later down the road the Z28 will still come around again while it may or may not be as track reaDY OF A CAR BUT gm HAS ALWAYS HAd A z28 IN THE MIX..
my money says any gen5 ZL1 or Z28 with less than 5k on the clock,and in mint condition 20yrs from now will be worth as much or more than new..If C.A.F.E does like some say these car wont be around again,they will wont be any Gas powered 550-650hp factory cars any longer,as the factory will have a target MPG of 85-90mpg...As thanks to the pres he already wants 54.4 mpg by 2025 instaed of the current 27mpg we have right now..so say good bye to these cars by 2035..lol good luck....wow I cant even believe i am thinking that far ahead growing up in the 7-'s and 80's..LOL
I disagree. The Z/28 like they built for the 5th gen will likely never happen again. The Z06 going forced induction pretty much guarantees that. The ZL1 will stay around because making power with a blower and staying within emissions regulations is easier. Sure, they may bring out the Z28 badge again but Z28 =/= Z/28.
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:35 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Camaro Dude View Post
A proper "tuning house", like RUF for Porsche, Hartge for BMW, Brabus for Mercedes, and a bunch of others, tune the rest of the car as well, in order to compensate for the rest of the insane power increases. More often than not, they will turn in quicker times on the Nurburgring.

You all know what an entry level C-Class Mercedes chassis is. Well, Brabus makes one called the Bullit Coupé, rated at close to 800HP, 3+ seconds to 60mph, 230 mph top speed, and yes, limited production. This is insane for an entry level family coupe. For sure this little puppy, is NOSE HEAVY with a 12 cylinder and twin turbos, but I'm sure they adjusted the suspension accordingly.

Just like the Callaway, it's limited production for the privileged few, who do not want to complain, and just enjoy a limited production toy. I doubt anyone on the Mercedes forums are complaining at Brabus.

My point and question is, did Callaway simply drop the SC in their and call it a day, and if that's what they truly did, is it because the car was balanced allowing for little more room to play with with SC? It's not uncommon for tuners to work with manufacturers you know, Alpina case in point with BMW.

Just asking', did Callaway get sloppy here, or do they really know what they are doing, working closely with GM, just like some Euro tuners do with their respective motherships?

Here is the thing I lived in Monterrey,ca and was lucky enough to of raced a firebird out of herb Adams shop in the 80's when he had his race shop down from the airport Of OFF highway 68 ..a few miles from what is now mazda speedway..
I watched him take out a small block and stuff in a freaking big block and go road racing and we kicked the crap out of people..Although those were the cray days of anything goes...
So i do not know how much road racing you have done,but yes adding 125lbs to the nose of a well balanced car can hurt it some,but if your also adding 200 hp,and with the suspension set up that the Z28 comes with is plenty good enough to be able to have the setting's changed to make up for the difference,plus ..Anyone sticking a s/C really is not going to go road racing in any class that i know of at this time and place, its a street car....
Now think of this if you stick a A/C system into this car your adding as much weight to it as 50-80lbs for the whole system,brackets belts fuilds,and all bolts included..anyone adding a S/C without ac is only going to be maybe 50-70lbs more....me i would rather have no a/c and a extra 200hp if i was going to play road racer on the weekends with my friends... plus most of the weight is on top on the motor all the way back to the window almost,so it's not going to hurt that bad...

The A/c system has more weight added closer to the front of the car if you think about it if your really worried how close to the front the weight is...



If your wondering about Callaway Abilities Funny how you mentioned the german cars...
As his first turbo kit was for a 320I then he did VW porche,AUDI,one of the first benz tuners,built a system for indy He did not do the Vetts till 1987-1991,but he has worked with both GM,and others in the past...
Although almost anyone with some tools , a programmer ,and can read can install a S/C on a Z28..its easy and the Ls7 project is just a follow up to the stuff everyone has been doing for yrs...
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:46 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
I understand. However the AMG car isn't that special, like a Black series.

I do get what you're saying...my point is made in post #53.
Perhaps.....but tell that to an AMG Black series owner, that your "Camaro" Z28 is more "special" than his, and be rest assured, that owner may too.


I think that this was, or should say, still is, one of Oppenheiser's missions. To one day, allow the Camaro name, to be said in the same breath and conversation, as an AMG, or any other world class performer. Sure the Mustang will always be on the radar screen, but alas, the times are a changin'.

But I understand what you are saying too.

Just merely adding a few perspectives here, to keep it real.
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:59 PM   #65
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This Z/28 is FAR FAR above and beyond previous ones. What does it really need to fit its purpose? More: Brakes? Suspension? Aero?
I'll say more power is understandable when you consider today's 600+ HP super-cars. Plus the Z/28 has the chassis, brakes and aero that are able to accept more power. However adding a SC just doesn't fit it's MO.
This is a very good point you make, particularly from a marketing perspective, where bragging rights on HP numbers, 0-60, and top speed is what it's all about sadly at times.

I'll agree with you that SC just doesn't fit right, for such a unique ride.

Personally, I think that LS7 should be TT'd for the win
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:06 PM   #66
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Perhaps.....but tell that to an AMG Black series owner, that your "Camaro" Z28 is more "special" than his, and be rest assured, that owner may too.


I think that this was, or should say, still is, one of Oppenheiser's missions. To one day, allow the Camaro name, to be said in the same breath and conversation, as an AMG, or any other world class performer. Sure the Mustang will always be on the radar screen, but alas, the times are a changin'.

But I understand what you are saying too.

Just merely adding a few perspectives here, to keep it real.
You misunderstood my comment. I was saying a typical AMG is NOT a Black series.
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:52 PM   #67
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I disagree. The Z/28 like they built for the 5th gen will likely never happen again. The Z06 going forced induction pretty much guarantees that. The ZL1 will stay around because making power with a blower and staying within emissions regulations is easier. Sure, they may bring out the Z28 badge again but Z28 =/= Z/28.
Sorry but your way way wrong with your facts making a S/c car pass emission is not easier than a N/A there is much more heat in the system of a S/C engine than N/A a S/c also burns more fuel ,so it will it will be gone..As It can take 35 to 80% of the power of the motor to just turn the S/c...Thats why all the company's have gone to turbo's as when your at highway speeds the turbo is just turning because of wasted exhaust,yet at highway speeds the motor still has to work to turn the S?C burning more fuel...think of this a 500 hemi top fuel drag motor uses every bits of the 1000hp to turn the S/C to make the 7000hp to run down the track, i know we are not talking about true drag motors but it gets the point across......look it up...My Zl1 gets crappy mpg..its a joke...but i can build a 750hp turbo motor and get 5-10mpg better on the freeway all day long than my 750hp ZL1....thats why GM is going to turbo's as is ford and everyone else...CAFE is going to be 54.4mpg in 2025 and could be 70-90-in another 20 yrs with 65 million new passenger cars on the road in 2013...
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Old 02-24-2014, 12:00 AM   #68
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Perhaps.....but tell that to an AMG Black series owner, that your "Camaro" Z28 is more "special" than his, and be rest assured, that owner may too.


I think that this was, or should say, still is, one of Oppenheiser's missions. To one day, allow the Camaro name, to be said in the same breath and conversation, as an AMG, or any other world class performer. Sure the Mustang will always be on the radar screen, but alas, the times are a changin'.

But I understand what you are saying too.

Just merely adding a few perspectives here, to keep it real.
Hey my ZL1 cost more than a AMG does by the time the taxes are paid and the car is market up over seas..how about over 400k..If your basing it on cost which is what it sounds like you are....And yes 400k in fact a member paid over 2ook for a base ss over seas..cost and how someone feels about a certain car or brand just depends on what side of the sea you may be on.. We pay less for a black series amg depending on model over here than a Z28 will in Europe that for sure..
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Old 02-24-2014, 12:08 AM   #69
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Sorry but your way way wrong with your facts making a S/c car pass emission is not easier than a N/A there is much more heat in the system of a S/C engine than N/A a S/c also burns more fuel ,so it will it will be gone..As It can take 35 to 80% of the power of the motor to just turn the S/c...Thats why all the company's have gone to turbo's as when your at highway speeds the turbo is just turning because of wasted exhaust,yet at highway speeds the motor still has to work to turn the S?C burning more fuel...think of this a 500 hemi top fuel drag motor uses every bits of the 1000hp to turn the S/C to make the 7000hp to run down the track, i know we are not talking about true drag motors but it gets the point across......look it up...My Zl1 gets crappy mpg..its a joke...but i can build a 750hp turbo motor and get 5-10mpg better on the freeway all day long than my 750hp ZL1....thats why GM is going to turbo's as is ford and everyone else...CAFE is going to be 54.4mpg in 2025 and could be 70-90-in another 20 yrs with 65 million new passenger cars on the road in 2013...
So I guess you know more than the GM engineers who developed the C7 Z06.
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Old 02-24-2014, 12:32 AM   #70
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Hey my ZL1 cost more than a AMG does by the time the taxes are paid and the car is market up over seas..how about over 400k..If your basing it on cost which is what it sounds like you are....And yes 400k in fact a member paid over 2ook for a base ss over seas..cost and how someone feels about a certain car or brand just depends on what side of the sea you may be on.. We pay less for a black series amg depending on model over here than a Z28 will in Europe that for sure..
Ummmm, yes.....I think.... lol


But to steer the conversation back to the Callaway, (forget the AMG...), I brought up the Barabus analogy before, as a tuning house to certain Mercedes models, as Callaway is to GM as well.

Now many here feel that the Z28 is too much of a one off, to be touched at all period. On the other hand, there are some who feel it's ok for an authorized tuner to touch it, but the Callaway approach this time around, on the Z28 as it happens to be, just doesn't seem to make ones juices flow, for whatever the reason(s).

Then there are those who will argue, who cares, Callaway name rocks period, this thing will hold its value anyways, hold a certain appeal in certain circles, regardless of what anyone has to bitch about.

I still think they (Callaway) should have twin turbocharged the Z28 instead .
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