08-31-2012, 07:23 PM | #43 |
Six Speed Freak
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GM owes U.S. how much?
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08-31-2012, 07:47 PM | #44 | ||
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And hell yes I copy and pasted this. Not from a GM site but it still describes some of the effort that was made by GM. Should they pay it back? Hell yeah they should. Do I find myself worrying about it to the point that I lose sleep? Hell no I don't. I find myself worrying about other issues that I won't bring up due to sensitive subject/people. Point in case, this thread. |
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08-31-2012, 09:02 PM | #45 |
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I am not arguing that GM/Chrysler should have been allowed to fail. That would have been devastating on the economy.
I am just keeping the story honest on taxpayer money and the big 3. |
08-31-2012, 10:37 PM | #46 | |
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The Ford hatred on this site is pretty silly. |
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09-01-2012, 12:27 AM | #47 |
Hail to the King baby!
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I've posted far too many times Ford was the biggest piggy at the trough for the DOE loans. I saw the list of technologies they wanted loans for and it was laughable.
Also I've asked if you borrowed $10,000 from the bank because you thought you had an emergency but then realized you wre ok and paid the $10,000 back were you using your money to repay the loans or the banks? And does it even matter since the debt is zero either way? And lastly a trivia question.......what company stood up after 9/11 to offer huge deals I. An effort to keep the economy moving? Hint it wasn't Coke offering 10 cents off a bottle and it wasnt McDonalds offering free fries. And engine thinking Ford is so awesome should simply look at Europe. Ooooooops.
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09-01-2012, 01:13 AM | #48 | |
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GM = took loans and tens of billions of dollars in free money (in an inflated exchange for equity) that will never be accounted for. They are simply not comparable. FoMoCo turned around in one of the most successful restructurings in recent history and GM went bankrupt, restructured under government ownership, and is now flourishing as a new corporation. Alan Mulally worked miracles with Ford while GM was gutted and thrown money because it was necessary to keep the doors open. These Ford loans will be paid back, the equity the gov holds in GM will NEVER be valuable enough to recover the total invested. Debate cars all you want, but Ford leadership (post 2006) has been a bright light in dark times within the auto industry and it's damn near disrespectful to even try to argue that it's remotely similar to that financial travesty of a company that was Old GM. |
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09-01-2012, 03:46 AM | #49 | |
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09-01-2012, 03:52 AM | #50 |
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It will be if they start making a new Z28!
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09-01-2012, 04:01 AM | #51 | |
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09-01-2012, 07:32 AM | #52 | |
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As far as the companies being held accountable for the money they borrowed they should have to pay it all back plus interest just like we would have to if we borrowed money. Now the money that won't be paid back for whatever reasons you can't completely blame GM for that since it was the government that agreed to those stipulations which is yet another reason why we are so screwed up these days. Hell how many of the people that trash GM for taking money and not paying it back have filed bankruptcy themselves? Alot but because it wasn't such a large amount or directly paid for by tax payers they feel it's ok right? Wrong! That debt tricked back down to every single one if us so take your share of blame right along with everyone else who just said screw it and let all there debt go and blame it on the banks for letting them do it. End rant.....
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09-01-2012, 09:35 AM | #53 | |
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I think this is a good point. I'd add though that personal bankruptcy is part of a larger problem. Society in general no longer has much respect for property rights. Look at any retail store. They just build in 10-15% overhead for theft and pass it along to the other customers. When an employee does the right thing and stops a thief, it's the employee that gets in trouble, and maybe fired. When the cops are called for theft, and the suspect is even identified on store cameras, they still blow it off. Cops treat ordinary theft like jaywalking. Cops don't care, because their communities don't care. Bottom line, society as a whole has been conditioned to think little of property rights (you didn't build that!), so it's not much of a stretch for people to declare bankruptcy, pass the cost to others, and move on without blinking an eye. As a larger point though, the general lack of respect, makes it FAR more easier for GOVERNMENT to take people's property and money and squander it as they see fit for their politically connected friends. Look at how many people right here on this forum defend the bailouts even though the executives and unions got rich off taxpayer money while the SECURED BONDHOLDERS had their money taken. In a just world, private property would be respected as much as personal rights, including using deadly force to justly defend it. And don't think your personal rights are safe now either. It's a slippery slope, and we're already half way down it. |
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09-01-2012, 03:38 PM | #54 | |
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09-01-2012, 09:00 PM | #55 | |
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WINNER... WINNER |
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09-01-2012, 09:02 PM | #56 | ||
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Last edited by TOBY J; 09-01-2012 at 09:24 PM. |
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