Maxing out an E-Force - HELP!

[Justin87GN]

Quick Recap: Car is a 2010 Camaro SS named "Bad Jewel"

First round of mods circa 2010: Edelbrock E-Force, SW long tubes/exhaust, Rotofab... Made 550/550 on a Dynojet.



Second round of mods July 2013: Comp Cam and upgraded valvetrain, Ported LS3 heads, ZL1 fuel pump, LS9 Clutch, 1200 HP Axles. Made 655/650 on same Dynojet.



Around October or so of 2013, the car ended up being way down on power. After pulling the heads, we discovered that the number 5 piston had a piece broken out of the top of the piston. It was still holding compression though!

Third round: Lingenfelter 417 Low compression stroker with forged internals, Lingenfelter dual fuel pumps, ID850 injectors, 2.75 pulley on the E-Force.



Took the car to the dyno yesterday and could not keep the IAT's down at all. We put ice in the blower reservoir, ice on top of the blower, as soon as you would start the car it would already be at 130 degree IATs. As soon as the car would start to crest 4k RPM on the dyno, it would immediately pull 5 degrees of timing because the blower was running so hot. It made 590 rwhp/630tq and was 88 degrees outside with 60 percent humidity.

On to my question... Would spraying Methanol injection keep the IATs down enough to make power with this set up? We are trying to keep the same blower that was on the car when we began because it is a "Tom Henry Racing" car, and we wanted to keep it as much of that as possible. Other thoughts were to pull the blower off and stick it in the crate with the stock LS3 that had cracked a piston. What blower would you guys recommend to go with that would be enough to go with the stroker motor and fuel? We have a Procharged LS3 Camaro as well that made 598 rwhp and would really like to stick with a roots style system on this car for the immediate power and not having to wait like with the Procharger for the car to really come on.

Thanks for reading, lets hear some opinions.

-Justin

[2012LS3VERT]

The Edelbrock heat exchanger is barely adequate at 6-8 psi on a stock LS3. I had one on my Maggie, IATs went up 10+ degrees just cruising compared to the stock maggie HX, and that was with 3 crushed tubes not doing anything, even after adding a secondary dual pass HX. Check your pump and hoses also for a restriction, make sure it is flowing well.

[1KillerSS]

Yes, do the Meth, if you want to make any more power.

[Ret Fuzz]

Meth for sure....Id also look towards an afco he with dual fans.

[AGP Turbo]

What were IAT's going up to on the pulls?
You did just swap to a less efficient engine, that's the right way to go when you have a lot of blower on tap like a F1x or YSi. But when you're limitation is a small PD blower, you don't drop compression and expect more power. You did gain a ton of reliability and safety margin with the new engine though.

[forklord]

Bigger heat exchanger for engine and blower. Bigger pump for blower exchanger maybe. Methanol for sure. Install phenolic spacer between blower and engine. Do you have cats? I would ho with a 3" pulley for less heat and longevity of blower. Less belt slip...

[Justin87GN]

Originally Posted by 2012LS3VERT

The Edelbrock heat exchanger is barely adequate at 6-8 psi on a stock LS3. I had one on my Maggie, IATs went up 10+ degrees just cruising compared to the stock maggie HX, and that was with 3 crushed tubes not doing anything, even after adding a secondary dual pass HX. Check your pump and hoses also for a restriction, make sure it is flowing well.

Will do for checking all hoses.

Originally Posted by Ret Fuzz

Meth for sure....Id also look towards an afco he with dual fans.

That will be the next step as well.

Originally Posted by AGP Turbo

What were IAT's going up to on the pulls?
You did just swap to a less efficient engine, that's the right way to go when you have a lot of blower on tap like a F1x or YSi. But when you're limitation is a small PD blower, you don't drop compression and expect more power. You did gain a ton of reliability and safety margin with the new engine though.

It maxed out the reading of 150 on the tuners HP Tuners software. We were trying to play it safe by going to the lower compression engine. Did not think we would lose this much though.

Originally Posted by forklord

Bigger heat exchanger for engine and blower. Bigger pump for blower exchanger maybe. Methanol for sure. Install phenolic spacer between blower and engine. Do you have cats? I would ho with a 3" pulley for less heat and longevity of blower. Less belt slip...

Car has high flow catalytic converts. We were trying to make up for the lower compression with the smaller pulley.

What do you guys think about running a dry shot of nitrous to cool the blower down?

[forklord]

With that psi/cube combo you need to get rid of those cats...wrap/coat headers, hood vents.

[ToddB]

Mine gets up to 134 on a long 3rd gear pull at 13 psi with meth on a 85 degree day. That's the highest I got all summer. I did add a higher flowing coolant pump on my Whipple heat exchanger.


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[1KillerSS]

Originally Posted by Justin87GN

What do you guys think about running a dry shot of nitrous to cool the blower down?

Do the meth first.

[COBARO1]

Originally Posted by Justin87GN

Quick Recap: Car is a 2010 Camaro SS named "Bad Jewel"

First round of mods circa 2010: Edelbrock E-Force, SW long tubes/exhaust, Rotofab... Made 550/550 on a Dynojet.



Second round of mods July 2013: Comp Cam and upgraded valvetrain, Ported LS3 heads, ZL1 fuel pump, LS9 Clutch, 1200 HP Axles. Made 655/650 on same Dynojet.



Around October or so of 2013, the car ended up being way down on power. After pulling the heads, we discovered that the number 5 piston had a piece broken out of the top of the piston. It was still holding compression though!

Third round: Lingenfelter 417 Low compression stroker with forged internals, Lingenfelter dual fuel pumps, ID850 injectors, 2.75 pulley on the E-Force.



Took the car to the dyno yesterday and could not keep the IAT's down at all. We put ice in the blower reservoir, ice on top of the blower, as soon as you would start the car it would already be at 130 degree IATs. As soon as the car would start to crest 4k RPM on the dyno, it would immediately pull 5 degrees of timing because the blower was running so hot. It made 590 rwhp/630tq and was 88 degrees outside with 60 percent humidity.

On to my question... Would spraying Methanol injection keep the IATs down enough to make power with this set up? We are trying to keep the same blower that was on the car when we began because it is a "Tom Henry Racing" car, and we wanted to keep it as much of that as possible. Other thoughts were to pull the blower off and stick it in the crate with the stock LS3 that had cracked a piston. What blower would you guys recommend to go with that would be enough to go with the stroker motor and fuel? We have a Procharged LS3 Camaro as well that made 598 rwhp and would really like to stick with a roots style system on this car for the immediate power and not having to wait like with the Procharger for the car to really come on.

Thanks for reading, lets hear some opinions.

-Justin

I went with a KDI Intercooler, Lingenfelter re-programmed super charger pump with 1" hoses, Ron Davis radiator and most importantly 1/2" pheneolic spacers and I significantly reduced IAT's. My next step is porting supercharger with good porting you can remove about 6 lbs of useless material and increase airflow.

[Unavowed]

Less compression means more boost. Time for twins. What turbos would AGP recommend for this build?

[AGP Turbo]

Originally Posted by Unavowed

Less compression means more boost. Time for twins. What turbos would AGP recommend for this build?

With the advancements in turbos in just the last year, I'd have 3 different recommendations that just get better and better the more budget you're willing to invest.
The premise I'd assume is that 1000whp is the max we would ever want to push since it's an aluminum block. The three options starting with good cheap turbos, would be 56mm extended tip, cast wheel, journal bearing. We've sold lots of these and had them do 1000whp across the country on many cars. Stepping up to a dual ballbearing Garrett with a billet wheel, the 55/57's will spool up noticeably quicker and still support 1000whp. And now the latest and greatest turbos available today would be the Borg Warner EFR series 7670. These measure 57mm and are a forged milled compressor wheel and a super lightweight Gamma-Ti turbine wheel, rolling on a dual ballbearing structure. These are literally Indy Car turbos. Indy cars run 22psi and no intercooler with these efficient babies. Fastest boost response available and not really that crazy expensive.

[Justin87GN]

Originally Posted by Clausing

I went with a KDI Intercooler, Lingenfelter re-programmed super charger pump with 1" hoses, Ron Davis radiator and most importantly 1/2" pheneolic spacers and I significantly reduced IAT's. My next step is porting supercharger with good porting you can remove about 6 lbs of useless material and increase airflow.

We are going to try this, along with methanol injection. Where did you put the pheneolic spacers at?

Originally Posted by AGP Turbo

With the advancements in turbos in just the last year, I'd have 3 different recommendations that just get better and better the more budget you're willing to invest.
The premise I'd assume is that 1000whp is the max we would ever want to push since it's an aluminum block. The three options starting with good cheap turbos, would be 56mm extended tip, cast wheel, journal bearing. We've sold lots of these and had them do 1000whp across the country on many cars. Stepping up to a dual ballbearing Garrett with a billet wheel, the 55/57's will spool up noticeably quicker and still support 1000whp. And now the latest and greatest turbos available today would be the Borg Warner EFR series 7670. These measure 57mm and are a forged milled compressor wheel and a super lightweight Gamma-Ti turbine wheel, rolling on a dual ballbearing structure. These are literally Indy Car turbos. Indy cars run 22psi and no intercooler with these efficient babies. Fastest boost response available and not really that crazy expensive.

Thank you for the quick response time. As I stated in an earlier post, we want to keep with the E-Force on this car for the time being as it is a numbered Tom Henry Racing car, and we wanted to keep it as close to that as possible.

However, We are looking to start a new build once we figure this one out IE: LSX TBSS, LSX ZL1... and after browsing your guys site, you have about everything you need to put together a healthy boosted application. We will have to keep you guys in mind. I bookmarked your website.