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Old 02-12-2018, 01:30 AM   #1
Zombie killer
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4 point Schroth harness for autocross use

Installed the Schroth 4 point harness with the ASM (anti submarining) feature this weekend. The harness is DOT street legal but I have no intention to use this harness on the street or on track. I wanted something for autocross to hold me firmly planted in the OE factory seats and didn’t want to go with a harness bar setup. I will be giving them a test run next weekend but I am having to flip the SS headrest backwards to not tear them up. SCCA rules require me to run a headrest so I was seeing if anybody has run these style of belts and replaced the OE headrest with something else better suited for limited use. Thinking to buy a used headrest off eBay and just cut it down to eliminate the elongated part that is in conflict. Would like to see what others have done before me that have made them work.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:25 PM   #2
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Having done my share of research on seats, steering wheels and harnesses. That configuration mounting the harness from the bottom the way you have it is dangerous. You are better off using your stock 3 point if you are not going to use a cage, roll bar, harness bar. Having the harness like that will compress your back into a position that is not natural. If you take it to a real sanctioned event it wont pass tech, they will tell you to use the stock 3 point.

Using a Roll bar, cage or harness bar raises the mounting position of the harness much more inline with your shoulders and will do the job correctly, without additionally potentially hurting you.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:56 PM   #3
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You're getting ahead of yourself worrying about headrests. That is horribly unsafe and against the rules for anything anywhere. Start researching neurosurgeons as that will destroy your spine in any kind of a wreck. As someone who's had multiple back operations my advice is throw it out or do it right. Brey Krausse is crash tested and the only harness bar I'm aware of on the market that I'd use.
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:22 PM   #4
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I don't think using this harness belt in a SCCA autocross is dangerous. The harness belts are used to hold me in the seat. There is nothing to hit nor any risk of any rollover in a sanctioned autocross. I specifically stated in my OP that I do not plan on using this harness for the public roads or the road course. I would rather use my OE 3 point as I said. I also personally would not run any harnes bar unless I had a cage just for the reason of being compressed or killed in a roll over. So your points are well taken if I was wearing the harness on the street or track. But I am not.

Btw, I also like the BK design for a harness bar, but unfortunately SCCA does not allow more than 4 points of attachment for a harness bar in the Street Touring class, so that eliminates the BK bar which has 6 points.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:39 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie killer View Post
I don't think using this harness belt in a SCCA autocross is dangerous. The harness belts are used to hold me in the seat. There is nothing to hit nor any risk of any rollover in a sanctioned autocross. I specifically stated in my OP that I do not plan on using this harness for the public roads or the road course. I would rather use my OE 3 point as I said. I also personally would not run any harnes bar unless I had a cage just for the reason of being compressed or killed in a roll over. So your points are well taken if I was wearing the harness on the street or track. But I am not.

Btw, I also like the BK design for a harness bar, but unfortunately SCCA does not allow more than 4 points of attachment for a harness bar in the Street Touring class, so that eliminates the BK bar which has 6 points.
Well if that is your situation then buying a bucket seat would have been a better option than try to finagle a safety harness in an attempts to feel more anchored in the car.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:57 PM   #6
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I've never known anyone who plans on crashing. But your need to comply with SCCA rules makes any false perception of situational safety irrelevant as your setup is illegal for any sanctioned event anywhere.

And the BK bar connects at 4 points, rear seat bolt and lower seat belt bolt on each side.

Last edited by Synner; 02-13-2018 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:37 PM   #7
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I had the same setup. Till I found out not to run it. Jordan of jdp and Pete Basica said get rid of it. That 45 degree angle of the tail straps is the dangerous part. If you crash it will add downward compression force on your back. Not worth it. What you do is call Schroth and for $50 they will send you the single tail strap. You now have a 3point harness. This attaches to the top left rear seat belt bolt. The angle is now safer, more level. about like a harness bar. I run this at scca here and others have with no issue. As to headrest I have no issues. And it holds you in place very well 😃👍
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synner View Post
I've never known anyone who plans on crashing. But your need to comply with SCCA rules makes any false perception of situational safety irrelevant as your setup is illegal for any sanctioned event anywhere.

And the BK bar connects at 4 points, rear seat bolt and lower seat belt bolt on each side.
True. Nobody ever plans on crashing. If they did they definitely should not be driving.

As for the BK bar, I did mis speak by accident. The BK bar is not allowed from what I read in the SCCA rules , however absurd as it reads. It only allows for 2 points of attachment except in the case of a C-pillar harness bar which seems to allow 4 points (2 primary and 2 support). I assume the rule book overlooks a better harness bar setup over the assumption that you could exploit the rules by stiffening the chassis with the truss style harness bar. I remembered it had 2 more attachment points than permitted but got my math wrong in my post.
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VR Baron View Post
I had the same setup. Till I found out not to run it. Jordan of jdp and Pete Basica said get rid of it. That 45 degree angle of the tail straps is the dangerous part. If you crash it will add downward compression force on your back. Not worth it. What you do is call Schroth and for $50 they will send you the single tail strap. You now have a 3point harness. This attaches to the top left rear seat belt bolt. The angle is now safer, more level. about like a harness bar. I run this at scca here and others have with no issue. As to headrest I have no issues. And it holds you in place very well 😃👍
Thanks for info. I will see if Schroth will send just the tail strap to convert the Rallye4 to a Rallye3 setup.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:50 AM   #10
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Thanks for info. I will see if Schroth will send just the tail strap to convert the Rallye4 to a Rallye3 setup.
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:50 PM   #11
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It seems like a good choice for autocross. I have not done autocross, but can you actually impact anything?
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:55 PM   #12
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I've been to a number of tracks that have walls or light poles adjacent to the course. All easily within hitting distance for a mechanical or driver failure in the car. And still very illegal for any sanctioned event with good reason.
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:09 PM   #13
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I have autocrossed for six years. Yes there can be a fence, or nothing at all. Yes there can be concrete walls, but courses are payed out well enough away as possible for spins or run off, at least the SoCal places we go to. I have seen three crashes, none of which should have happened. Basically the drivers lack of talent was the factor. As always do what is best for your safety and conditions
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:11 AM   #14
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It seems like a good choice for autocross. I have not done autocross, but can you actually impact anything?
People do occasionally get lost in a "sea of cones" and when that happens there's no telling what they might end up aimed at. Light poles, trees, traffic islands or curbs, each other.

I've even seen a car roll over at autocross. Bad setup choices and not a Camaro, but still . . .

Rule sets have to consider all of the cars that are allowed to participate in the first place, without granting safety exceptions to anybody even if some foreseeable situation is virtually impossible for a particular car to get into.


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