[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by blackgloves

but the 2nd, 3rd and 4th did? That's over half. We know why the 1st didn't that was a given. The 4th lasted from 93-2002

yeah, cuz they were being cheap lazy bastards at the time.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by blackgloves

but the 2nd, 3rd and 4th did? That's over half. We know why the 1st didn't that was a given. The 4th lasted from 93-2002

The 4th gen was DOA so GM wasn't going to put any money into it. The only significant changes I can think of over the entire 4th generation was the move from LT1 to LS1 and the accompanying front fascia change. GM just didn't care about the car at that point.

[blackgloves]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

No way in heck the 6th gen will last 10 years.

As others above have already pointed out, it was said to expect an evolution. Not an all new design.

What I'm hearing is that you are sad that the car could look similar to the 5th gen. Well...sorry about that, but if it were the other way around, and the car was a huge change well then we'd have lots of "BUT the 5th gen is the best looking Camaro EVER....why would GM jump ship!!????"

Last but no least...we still haven't seen the actual car. Based on what we have seen, the body lines look to be very similar, but there are lots of things we haven't seen. BIG difference between seeing a car in camo versus the real deal all dressed up on the showroom floor.

Many (including myself) felt that the 5th gen would be the perfect car if it were just a lighter, and perhaps tiny bit smaller car. Well thats what GM is giving us. We are getting a car on a sweet chasis, with a sweet engine, and most certainly a completely redone, modern interior with all the goodies.

Nobody complains when BMW, or Porsche goes decades on a similar design while increasing performance, and quality. Why can't Camaro do it with such a beautiful design?

Can't please everyone.

So many flaws here I'm not even sure where to start. I guess Ill just go and delete half of what you said and focus on the other...


The 6th Gen wont last 10 years? Good point. I thought previously (obviously) that they were sticking to the old trend of keeping a generation for about 10 years which would be horrible. If they're not, then this isn't a horrible idea. they need a total face lift every so many years. My guess is about every 5 to 7 years..

No one other than you and some members of this forum think the 5th Gen is the "greatest" Camaro ever. You totally sound like the typical message board guy when you say stuff like this. While I like the 5th Gen.. to say its the "greatest" generation of Camaro ever is way off the charts. There are many people out there that are huge Camaro fans that haven't nor will they touch a 5th Gen. They simply think its ugly and or hate the interior.

Lastly (warning/rant)... I hope like hell that GM is not feeding into the idea of the typical internet message board guy. "we want a lighter and smaller car" I cringe every time I read this. The 5th Gen is the heaviest Camaro ever made? Why did it out sell the 4th Gen by leaps and bounds? The consumer base(vast majority) that is out there could care less about how much this car weighs? Wanna know how I know this? Go look at the sales numbers for the V6 models. That's where GM/Camaro makes its pay day. The bulk of the consumer base for these types of cars (Camaro/Mustang/Challenger) could care less about the weight of the car. What drives sales is 1a. Look 2b. Price ..... 3. Saftety Only the internet gear heads care about weight. Go look at my signature... I've never owned anything other than a V8 powered Camaro. I have no interest in the V6 models. Over the years though I have grown to see and recognize the other side of the business. Its not about me and you. Its about the soccer moms, the freshmen in College types and the people that are in the budget/range for the V6 models.

What GM needs to do is to continue to build a car that's going to appeal to the vast population. Something that catches the eye of everyone. Between that happening with the 5th gen and the marketing scheme (Transformers) its what put the Camaro name back on the map.

You're are right. We cant see the entire car. Ill give you that much. But what we can see it doesn't appear that the car looks a whole lot different than the 5th Gen which has been mass produced since 2010? Seems like a much longer time frame than that. Maybe my numbers are off.

If they want to "revolutionize" the Camaro/5th Gen... I don't have an issue with that as long as it doesn't look like the 5th Gen with just a different grill and a slightly different hood. I've been looking at all the de-camo'd pictures of the 2016 Camaro. It really seems like it hasn't changed hardly at all

[blackgloves]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Nobody complains when BMW, or Porsche goes decades on a similar design while increasing performance, and quality. Why can't Camaro do it with such a beautiful design?

Can't please everyone.

Did you really just compare the Camaro to BMW and a Porsche?

[sonnydurden]

Originally Posted by blackgloves

but the 2nd, 3rd and 4th did? That's over half. We know why the 1st didn't that was a given. The 4th lasted from 93-2002

But you have to admit that the 4th Gen had a hard refresh though... I think 99-02..

[sonnydurden]

Originally Posted by JDP Motorsports

I like the looks of the 5th Gen and the 6th Gen is going to be a smaller more refined version. I'm OK with that!

Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley
888.308.6007

I'm ok with that too Jordan!!.. Thought this is what everyone wanted

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by blackgloves

So many flaws here I'm not even sure where to start. I guess Ill just go and delete half of what you said and focus on the other...


The 6th Gen wont last 10 years? Good point. I thought previously (obviously) that they were sticking to the old trend of keeping a generation for about 10 years which would be horrible. If they're not, then this isn't a horrible idea. they need a total face lift every so many years. My guess is about every 5 to 7 years..

No one other than you and some members of this forum think the 5th Gen is the "greatest" Camaro ever. You totally sound like the typical message board guy when you say stuff like this. While I like the 5th Gen.. to say its the "greatest" generation of Camaro ever is way off the charts. There are many people out there that are huge Camaro fans that haven't nor will they touch a 5th Gen. They simply think its ugly and or hate the interior.

Lastly (warning/rant)... I hope like hell that GM is not feeding into the idea of the typical internet message board guy. "we want a lighter and smaller car" I cringe every time I read this. The 5th Gen is the heaviest Camaro ever made? Why did it out sell the 4th Gen by leaps and bounds? The consumer base(vast majority) that is out there could care less about how much this car weighs? Wanna know how I know this? Go look at the sales numbers for the V6 models. That's where GM/Camaro makes its pay day. The bulk of the consumer base for these types of cars (Camaro/Mustang/Challenger) could care less about the weight of the car. What drives sales is 1a. Look 2b. Price ..... 3. Saftety Only the internet gear heads care about weight. Go look at my signature... I've never owned anything other than a V8 powered Camaro. I have no interest in the V6 models. Over the years though I have grown to see and recognize the other side of the business. Its not about me and you. Its about the soccer moms, the freshmen in College types and the people that are in the budget/range for the V6 models.

What GM needs to do is to continue to build a car that's going to appeal to the vast population. Something that catches the eye of everyone. Between that happening with the 5th gen and the marketing scheme (Transformers) its what put the Camaro name back on the map.

You're are right. We cant see the entire car. Ill give you that much. But what we can see it doesn't appear that the car looks a whole lot different than the 5th Gen which has been mass produced since 2010? Seems like a much longer time frame than that. Maybe my numbers are off.

If they want to "revolutionize" the Camaro/5th Gen... I don't have an issue with that as long as it doesn't look like the 5th Gen with just a different grill and a slightly different hood. I've been looking at all the de-camo'd pictures of the 2016 Camaro. It really seems like it hasn't changed hardly at all

The 5th gen outsold the 4th gen by leaps and bounds because the Camaro died and came back. It also came back in a time where there was a lot of competition in the pony car market and people were buying them. The 4th gen died when people were buying trucks and SUVs.

The current Camaro is a large car with a cramped interior. They can make the physical dimensions of the car smaller while maintaining decent interior cabin space so there is little downside to making the car smaller and lighter. The ATS and CTS have great crash ratings so that is a non issue. The upside is better performance and better mileage, easier to maneuver and easier to park.

Listening to people who aren't enthusiasts will make ever car a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic. Those are both fine cars but they aren't Camaros. Listening to enthusiasts only isn't the answer either.

[MikeT]

For me, the jury is still very much out. A huge issue for me is rear visibility. I like to be able to look over my shoulder and have some sense of what's back there. The 5th gen is sorely lacking in this department. Will the new car be any better? Impossible to say at this point due to all of the camo over the c-pillar and around the rear windows.

Of course, even if we get the same (or similar) fat c-pillar, it's possible that the new car can mitigate this disadvantage with technology (e.g., blind-spot detection, cameras, cross-traffic detection, etc.). All the same, I do hate looking over my shoulder and not being able to see a damned thing.

[blackgloves]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Listening to people who aren't enthusiasts will make ever car a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic. Those are both fine cars but they aren't Camaros. Listening to enthusiasts only isn't the answer either.

You're being overly dramatic to make a point. Feeding into the wants and needs of the consumer base (majority) doens't mean make all Camaros V6 and 4 cyc.

They should always offer a V8 that's highly competitive with it's rivals. They know this and I think everyone does. All I'm saying is that they need to continue to make a car that's cosmetically appealing to the point that the Camaro stays very popular. I have my doubts that keeping the basic look of the 5th Gen as the answer. I have to assume that depending on how long they keep this basic look is the key to its success/failure

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by blackgloves

So many flaws here I'm not even sure where to start. I guess Ill just go and

Alrighty...

No one other than you and some members of this forum think the 5th Gen is the "greatest" Camaro ever. You totally sound like the typical message board guy when you say stuff like this. While I like the 5th Gen.. to say its the "greatest" generation of Camaro ever is way off the charts. There are many people out there that are huge Camaro fans that haven't nor will they touch a 5th Gen. They simply think its ugly and or hate the interior.

its funny that you quoted "greatest" even though I never said it. Your totally putting words into my mouth. I said "many including myself FEEL the 5th gen would be the perfect car if it were just a lighter, and perhaps tiny bit smaller car." So I was saying it is of mine and others opinion. Not saying OMG 5th gen is the best ever!!

I did say it was a beautiful design...which sales seem to agree with and the waves, comments, and thumbs up I get on a 5 year old car seem to imply

I never said I definitely felt it was the greatest ever.

Lastly (warning/rant)... I hope like hell that GM is not feeding into the idea of the typical internet message board guy. "we want a lighter and smaller car" I cringe every time I read this. The 5th Gen is the heaviest Camaro ever made? Why did it out sell the 4th Gen by leaps and bounds?

Surely you understand why the 5th gen outsold the 4th...I'm not even going to begin to explain this to you.

The consumer base(vast majority) that is out there could care less about how much this car weighs? Wanna know how I know this? Go look at the sales numbers for the V6 models. That's where GM/Camaro makes its pay day. The bulk of the consumer base for these types of cars (Camaro/Mustang/Challenger) could care less about the weight of the car. What drives sales is 1a. Look 2b. Price ..... 3. Saftety Only the internet gear heads care about weight.

They don't care because they general consumer does not know how much this car weighs. Most people think modern cars should be lighter than ever, and then are shocked when you tell them they are heavier. Go tell everyone you know that your Camaro weighs almost 2 tons, and then see what they say.

Weight IS important (safety, performance, handling, MPG) even if don't care, or you THINK consumers don't care. When you tell them weight will affect all of the above, they will care.

....

You're are right. We cant see the entire car. Ill give you that much. But what we can see it doesn't appear that the car looks a whole lot different than the 5th Gen which has been mass produced since 2010? Seems like a much longer time frame than that. Maybe my numbers are off.

If they want to "revolutionize" the Camaro/5th Gen... I don't have an issue with that as long as it doesn't look like the 5th Gen with just a different grill and a slightly different hood. I've been looking at all the de-camo'd pictures of the 2016 Camaro. It really seems like it hasn't changed hardly at all

again, those de-camo'd pictures are just guesses based on what we know. Nobody should be making a final judgement call based on those shots.

A little makes a big difference. Look at it this way. We all loved the 10 - 13 models (for the most part). Then, when the 2014 came out, there was a lot of hate for certain parts of the car. Whats under that camo could be something we all fall in love with again, or there could be parts that we really just hate on an otherwise OK looking car. Those de-camo'd photos....while nice to have and fun to look at...don't give us nearly all the details.

See in red above

Originally Posted by blackgloves

Did you really just compare the Camaro to BMW and a Porsche?

Yes I did. Whats the problem? All I said was that BMW and Porsche have been going for generations now on similar designs successfully.

Why can't a Camaro go two generations on a similar design and not be successful?

[blackgloves]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

See in red above



Yes I did. Whats the problem? All I said was that BMW and Porsche have been going for generations now on similar designs successfully.

Why can't a Camaro go two generations on a similar design and not be successful?

If it requires an explanation for you then its not worth my time. How old are you?

[ilirg]

Originally Posted by blackgloves

If it requires an explanation for you then its not worth my time. How old are you?

[blackgloves]

The comment about how internet message board guys took the "new changes" to the Camaro (2014) goes right along with everything that I've thought and seen. Before I read this board a few days ago I told everyone that I ran into and discussed the Camaro about how much I liked the new changes. The spike in sales indicates that the changes are popular too. Leave it to the gear heads/message board (small consumer base) to not like the direction the Camaro went

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by blackgloves

You're being overly dramatic to make a point. Feeding into the wants and needs of the consumer base (majority) doens't mean make all Camaros V6 and 4 cyc.

They should always offer a V8 that's highly competitive with it's rivals. They know this and I think everyone does. All I'm saying is that they need to continue to make a car that's cosmetically appealing to the point that the Camaro stays very popular. I have my doubts that keeping the basic look of the 5th Gen as the answer. I have to assume that depending on how long they keep this basic look is the key to its success/failure

Well, the current Camaro has outsold the Mustang and Challenger every year so you can doubt it all you want but the sales are still very strong. I wouldn't be surprised if the Mustang took the sales crown this year seeing as they have an all new car but 2016 should be the real test.