GM Closing Oshawa, Other Plants

[102SS]

Originally Posted by Rock-It Man

Sad to see these layoff, even though my 2010 was far from flawless.

Thats too bad you got a bad one.

Mine has been awesome.

Too bad about the plant,losing the Trucks then the Camaro and now this.

Its a sad day for Oshawa.

[flaps100]

I have to disagree, was just at the International Auto Show in Las Vegas, Wanted to like Buick, Chevy, Caddy, but man the interior quality on any and all of the GM product can not come close to Ford, Honda and a few others.

Plus the fact they don't advertise Camaro, and again this weekend, dropped my sons car off at an Autoshop for car Stereo Upgrades, real nice place and they are bonkers on Muscle Cars, out front is a Scat, an Older Camaro 2010ish and a Mustang and even the Camaro guy had no idea a Turbo Camaro Existed, they were all Muscle Car guys, but wanted to know about the Turbo version of the Camaro.

The other issue and we went at opening on Friday, it was already crazy busy at the show, lots of potential buyers / customer. GM only had one Camaro at the show and it was not an impressive one, Only Chevy and GM were there, No GMC and no Cadillac, tons of people crawling all over those Fords and Lincolns as well as Hondas. The Honda Accord is so much nicer than any Ford, Chevy or Buick at the show when it came to 4 door sedan.

Odd that Toyota and Nissan can sell 4 Door cars and American Mfg can not, mostly because there product is not as good, or as nice.

I am sad to see GM fall further and further into the dark hole they are going into.

Flaps

Originally Posted by DC5

Good! GM needs to cut the fat of underutilized manufacturing facilities and focus on remaining profitable while producing better and better vehicles. Why do people, ostensibly like yourself, care if GM is one of the largest automobile manufactures (this is a sincere question)? I'm sure most of us remember when GM pursued volume over profits, and the outcome was poor for both GM and its investors as well as consumers.

[flaps100]

Just got done comparing one to the other at a car show and the Ford, Honda and Lincoln all are better quality especially interiors.

Originally Posted by cbr1100xx

GM products suck for the most part in terms of quality/reliability/quality control. The only GM car I'd consider is a Camaro/Vette.

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by Rock-It Man

Sad to see these layoff, even though my 2010 was far from flawless.

I see very few posts regarding bad build quality of the 5th gen.

[redirish]

Sorry to hear this. I will always remember going to Canada and touring the plant. Was a good time!

[songsj]

My 2015 2SS has only 7300 miles on it but has been a great car so far. Not back for warranty work even once. 3 years old.

[Moto-Mojo]

Originally Posted by songsj

My 2015 2SS has only 7300 miles on it but has been a great car so far. Not back for warranty work even once. 3 years old.

What a slacker! (my 2015 has 11,000 miles )

[pyroguy]

From what I understand they are doing away with the Cruze, Impala, and Volt (no loss on the Volt). It is sad to lose a plant that has put together so many quality vehicles. My '14 Impala came out of that plant too and it has been awesome as well. Thank you Oshawa for all the fun times!

[DC5]

Originally Posted by flaps100

Just got done comparing one to the other at a car show and the Ford, Honda and Lincoln all are better quality especially interiors.

Concerning interior build quality, materials, and fit/finish: Lincoln < Cadillac (with exception to the new Navigator).

[Royal Tiger]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

More sterile, ugly, boring, slow, POS commuting pods like this...

That’s better looking and a far better vehicle than the Equinox. Now I’d like to see exciting vehicles like Camaro & Corvette last, but the reality is GM’s offerings in most cases are well short of Toyota & Honda.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by maraging

I blame the "real people" commercials.

I don't know what they spent on that campaign, but that has to be one of the single worst advertising campaigns I've ever seen.

Originally Posted by protovack

Wow. Some people here seem fairly out of touch with reality. If you think a plant closing means GM is "failing" you're crazy. Look up some basic economic concepts and keep up with the state of the world. Companies adapt and change. The fact that GM is making decisions about downsizing certain segments, closing some plants and focusing more resources to other ones, means they are a dynamic company which is adapting to a changing world. That is a sign of a healthy company not a failing one.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/gm...roduction-cars

This explains precisely why GM is making these changes, and they have good reasons to do so, just like Ford.

The Camaro is not going away, none of these changes even come close to touching the Camaro. It's a niche product that sells itself and GM made good profit off the 5th and 6th gen camaros.

Quit the doom and gloom already!

"Healthy" companies don't close plants and lay off thousands of workers. This same Pollyanna-speak was said by Montgomery Wards, Mervyn's, CompUSA, Circuit City, Toys R Us, Radio Shack, Sears... you get the picture. When you have to deep-spin plant closings by calling them "unallocated" they're in trouble and they know it. Why do you think they announced they aren't releasing monthly sales numbers anymore? Only quarterly? It's because the quarterly numbers will appear bigger; it's a psychological shell game. Same reason why retailers advertise $9.99 instead of $10.00.

Everything is done 3-4 years out. What they announced today is to prop up quarterly reports for the next few quarters. SUV's and trucks aren't going to save them, anymore than it's going to save Ford. Those markets are almost saturated now, and when they hit that point, the sales curves will start to decline. What do you think Ford and GM will do then? Ford is screwed. It takes too long to restart an entire market division. These aren't the old days where the "big 3" are the only game in town, and they can afford to screw up and still survive. They had 30+% marketshare then; now they're down to 15% and shrinking. There's some seriously stiff competition out there and they're playing to win.

If they think the sedan market is dead, they're seriously mistaken. I see a LOT of sedans on the road; new ones too... they're just not GM or Ford sedans. They're Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, Honda, and so on.

You do realize that the 7th Gen is already designed and sitting in a room somewhere, don't you? They're probably struggling with making the business case that it's worth spending the billion+ it's going to take to put it into production. It's going to need advertising, but how many Camaros do they have to sell to pay for the millions it costs to advertise? Selling 2,500 a month doesn't cut it. They're looking at the trends, looking at last year's sales performance, and looking at how the "refresh" did NOT ignite sales. If the refresh is the direction they went with the 7th gen... why bother. Just keep what they've got another couple of years, then call it done. Switch to an electric Camaro, and lobby for carbon credits and "green" subsidies.

I'm not happy about this; believe me I wish things were better, but I'm a realist. I'm looking 3-4 years down the road. 3-4 years ago I was afraid they were going to be at where they are today. I saw the same reactions as yours.

The sad part is, it's fixable. They just need to start looking at things as the customer sees it; not the accounting or marketing department. The family that can afford a big truck or SUV, has 3 vehicles; not one. Mom drives the SUV, dad drives the executive sedan, and the teen(s) drive something sporty that's cheaper than what dad and mom drive. Those 3 vehicles appear to be 3 separate markets, and that's how the auto companies are looking at it, but they're not; it's the same family. That's how much things have changed. They need to understand that, and develop a holistic vision that takes all that into account. Unfortunately there's too much bureaucracy for them to change the way they need to. I wish it were different, I really do, but as others are pointing out, the competition is already putting out better products at a better price. What GM is probably going to do is start chasing the competition with "we can do that too". The decisions will be made on the basis of cost: "how can we cut corners and costs to make money?" (just like they announced today) instead of "how can we make a vehicle so cool, so exciting that even WE want one?"

Cost cutting isn't a future growth strategy; not in this industry. It just isn't.

[camaro5]

My thoughts are with the line workers.

Good people determined to make a quality product.

The job market is doing well, hopefully that will aid in their new endeavors.

[The camaro show]

The impala has been around so long tho

[protovack]

Originally Posted by Doc

I don't know what they spent on that campaign, but that has to be one of the single worst advertising campaigns I've ever seen.

"Healthy" companies don't close plants and lay off thousands of workers. This same Pollyanna-speak was said by Montgomery Wards, Mervyn's, CompUSA, Circuit City, Toys R Us, Radio Shack, Sears... you get the picture. When you have to deep-spin plant closings by calling them "unallocated" they're in trouble and they know it. Why do you think they announced they aren't releasing monthly sales numbers anymore? Only quarterly? It's because the quarterly numbers will appear bigger; it's a psychological shell game. Same reason why retailers advertise $9.99 instead of $10.00.

Everything is done 3-4 years out. What they announced today is to prop up quarterly reports for the next few quarters. SUV's and trucks aren't going to save them, anymore than it's going to save Ford. Those markets are almost saturated now, and when they hit that point, the sales curves will start to decline. What do you think Ford and GM will do then? Ford is screwed. It takes too long to restart an entire market division. These aren't the old days where the "big 3" are the only game in town, and they can afford to screw up and still survive. They had 30+% marketshare then; now they're down to 15% and shrinking. There's some seriously stiff competition out there and they're playing to win.

If they think the sedan market is dead, they're seriously mistaken. I see a LOT of sedans on the road; new ones too... they're just not GM or Ford sedans. They're Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, Honda, and so on.

You do realize that the 7th Gen is already designed and sitting in a room somewhere, don't you? They're probably struggling with making the business case that it's worth spending the billion+ it's going to take to put it into production. It's going to need advertising, but how many Camaros do they have to sell to pay for the millions it costs to advertise? Selling 2,500 a month doesn't cut it. They're looking at the trends, looking at last year's sales performance, and looking at how the "refresh" did NOT ignite sales. If the refresh is the direction they went with the 7th gen... why bother. Just keep what they've got another couple of years, then call it done. Switch to an electric Camaro, and lobby for carbon credits and "green" subsidies.

I'm not happy about this; believe me I wish things were better, but I'm a realist. I'm looking 3-4 years down the road. 3-4 years ago I was afraid they were going to be at where they are today. I saw the same reactions as yours.

The sad part is, it's fixable. They just need to start looking at things as the customer sees it; not the accounting or marketing department. The family that can afford a big truck or SUV, has 3 vehicles; not one. Mom drives the SUV, dad drives the executive sedan, and the teen(s) drive something sporty that's cheaper than what dad and mom drive. Those 3 vehicles appear to be 3 separate markets, and that's how the auto companies are looking at it, but they're not; it's the same family. That's how much things have changed. They need to understand that, and develop a holistic vision that takes all that into account. Unfortunately there's too much bureaucracy for them to change the way they need to. I wish it were different, I really do, but as others are pointing out, the competition is already putting out better products at a better price. What GM is probably going to do is start chasing the competition with "we can do that too". The decisions will be made on the basis of cost: "how can we cut corners and costs to make money?" (just like they announced today) instead of "how can we make a vehicle so cool, so exciting that even WE want one?"

Cost cutting isn't a future growth strategy; not in this industry. It just isn't.

You have your view, I respect that. However consider:

1. Yes, healthy companies do in fact close some manufacturing facilities and open others.
2. Old big (and small) box stores certainly closed, that's true. However its not the same industry and not the same reasons. Toys'r'us closed because Walmart does it cheaper, not better. Same thing with the rest. By the way, there is still a fully functional Sears in my home town!
3. Getting away from monthly sales numbers is a good thing. It's an intelligent move. The media is hyperfocused on monthly sales data as if it means something, it usually doesn't so why obsess over it. The reason for this is not to trick people. Their sales numbers are public and anybody who wants their sales data can get it.
4. SUVs and Trucks are successful and will continue to be, both for Ford and GM.
5. Going from 30% market share to 15% doesn't matter as much as you think. Companies scale to their market, and they can still be profitable. Any one restaurant in a town has only has a miniscule amount of the total market share but they can still be profitable.
6. No one ever said the sedan market is dead. It IS over-saturated though now that that demand has done down. Don't kid yourself, demand for sedans has definitely dropped.
7. I do realize the 7th gen camaro is already well into and possibly finished with design phase. However your assertion that the Camaro team is struggling to justify itself is way off base. The Camaro has been wildly successful for GM and very profitable. You can look up the numbers on your own if you don't believe me.
8. I like your point about the family and what about the starter car for the 18 year old, etc. But, Chevrolet still has the subcompacts like the Sonic, etc, and probably always will have them under various names. They are super fuel efficient and go a long way to getting them compliant with CAFE standards. But it's obvious people like crossovers.

GM sells lots of cars, in the US and all around the world. The Equinox sells just as many as any CRV or Rav-4. They sold just as many Cruzes as Hyundai sold Elantras. And they sell bazillions of trucks and large crossover/SUVs and these are highly profitable markets.

I'm as surprised as you are that GM is killing the Cruze as it sold tons of units and was doing really well, but I'm sure there are more complicated reasons behind the decision than we realize. They are making a bet on the next 5 years and hoping it pays off, no different than any other company selling anything. Agree or disagree, doesn't matter. And like it or not, GM can afford to be a little cavalier knowing that they can get bailed out. You may not agree with that politically but there are reasons for it. Ironically, bailouts ended up being indirect subsidies for the manufacturing towns GM operates (yes, and also capital for expanding their worldwide business).

Is the competition really putting out "better products" at a "better price?" That's a matter of opinion my friend. I'm biased as I tend to like GM products, but I have my reasons. I just got a new 2.0T Equinox and it is one of the best vehicles I've ever driven. I like it a ton better than my old Forester! My K2 Silverado has been bullet proof and it does more, and gets the best gas mileage of any truck I've ever owned. And my SS 1LE puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. And because I could easily add a flex fuel kit I'll likely be able to drive it well into the future after petroleum gets real expensive. GM and Ford both are heavily invested in the possibility that ethanol becomes the main liquid fuel for road transport in the future. Doesn't seem very "short-sighted" to me.

There is certainly no shortage of people on the internet who are absolutely sure that if THEY were made CEO of GM, they would run it SO much better