UNIONS: Are they partly to blame?

[2Muchmark]

On the news a couple of days ago, they announced that Chrysler needs all factory works to take a $19.00 per hour cut in order to make a deal with Fiat. If they get this deal, they remain viable and in business.

The unions however are refusing to accept this deal, claiming all kinds of things.

Chrysler has announced that unless they get the unions to agree by the end of this month, that THAT IS IT. They lose the deal with Fiat, AND, they may pull out of Canada and the US altogether.

What do you think? Who's right? Who should give in to who?

[Brokinarrow]

I think the Unions need to realize that if they don't accept the pay cuts for now, their workers won't be getting paid PERIOD. They can demand pay increases again once the economy gets back on its feet.

[Splitter]

[Chevyrocker]

Risky thread to start there guy...considering we have members on both sides of the spectrum (dealers and union), and some members that just don't understand business, this is probably gonna get ugly...












In other words, I've subscribed.

[MontyCarlo]

As I see it, the main reason to have unions is to make sure employers can't get away with ludicrously bad treatment of their employees. There was a time in this country when that was desperately needed. Nowadays, the public & the government do a decent job of forcing employers to treat employees like human beings, but the unions still look out for themselves (naturally) and they're doing so to an extent that they may be killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, crippling the businesses that sign their paychecks. A business isn't a magical money tree; it's a venture that exists to turn a profit, and if it's not doing that effectively, it'll be shut down and replaced with something else.

[super60]

Originally Posted by Chevyrocker

Risky thread to start there guy...considering we have members on both sides of the spectrum (dealers and union), and some members that just don't understand business, this is probably gonna get ugly...












In other words, I've subscribed.

Your 100% right ! This is a very risky subject..I'll take a pass thanks.

[erasedgod]

[2010SSRS]

Originally Posted by Brokinarrow

I think the Unions need to realize that if they don't accept the pay cuts for now, their workers won't be getting paid PERIOD. They can demand pay increases again once the economy gets back on its feet.

first of all.......i AM union (IBEW)...

second, while i agree that the UAW (both Chysler and GM) needs to step back, evaluate and do their part......asking Chrysler (then GM, u know it would happen) to take a $19/hr paycut IS REDICULOUS.. there are other ways to concess, that's not it!

they are asking them to go from $26/hr all the way down to $7/hr.........

would you take that deal? and if you say yes...........U R A LIAR! McDonalds pays that much.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by 2010SSRS

first of all.......i AM union (IBEW)...

second, while i agree that the UAW (both Chysler and GM) needs to step back, evaluate and do their part......asking Chrysler (then GM, u know it would happen) to take a $19/hr paycut IS REDICULOUS.. there are other ways to concess, that's not it!

they are asking them to go from $26/hr all the way down to $7/hr.........

would you take that deal? and if you say yes...........U R A LIAR! McDonalds pays that much.

No!! you are mis-informed, the $19 dollars an hour cut is mostly from reducing benefits. In canada I believe when one INCLUDES benefits the CAW are getting paid about $19 an hour more than non-union workers.

Edit: there is an article at motortend outlining Chrysler's plan on how to cut The $19 an hour. It is all basicaly reducing benefits and some benefits that are up for the chopping block are benefits non-union workers don't have anyways.

[UCI CamaroFan]

At the same time, unions are too strong. I have a friend who used to work in Detroit on the line when during the summer while not in school. He has some pretty scary stories.

One that I can remember off the top of my head was that there is a bar next to the plant, and one time a worker came back from lunch and managed to do several hundred thousand dollars worth of damage.

I ought to have my friend get on here to tell the story. I know he getting a 2010 Camaro too.

[2010SSRS]

Originally Posted by truth411

No!! you are mis-informed, the $19 dollars an hour cut is mostly from reducing benefits. In canada I believe when one INCLUDES benefits the CAW are getting paid about $19 an hour more than non-union workers.

Edit: there is an article at motortend outlining Chrysler's plan on how to cut The $19 an hour. It is all basicaly reducing benefits and some benefits that are up for the chopping block are benefits non-union workers don't have anyways.

1st post said $19/hr paycut. see now we're getting somewhere. there is room to renegotiate when ur talking benefits......not sure about $19/hr worth, but nevertheless.

[FenwickHockey65]

I don't think it's down to $7/hour, last I heard, newhires are making $12/hour or something like that.

[2Muchmark]

Hi Everyone -

First, the intention of this thread isn't to cause a fight. I'm asking the opinions because the opionions that I have differ from my employees.

I propose the following: Let's assume that everyone, the corporations, unions and employees, are all 100% honest.

Let's also assume that everyone has a genuine interest in keeping the companies alive, workers working, cars and money flowing.

Now with this in mind:

While I agree that it is VERY HARD to take a $19.00 per hour cut (regardless of whether it is in the form of a paycheck or benefit), I think that the Unions MUST accept this. (Again, I am assuming here that everyone is 100% honest so please don't flame me!)

Why should they accept it? Because if not the company is gone of course.

But also, they should accept it because the deal that was made with them was made years ago, when the economy was very different. Today is not yesterday. Today, new deals must be made.

If deals are not made then American car companies close, and the Toyota's and Nissans of the world take over the US Car market, forever.

Now again, this ASSUMES that everyone is HONEST. If you're a Union guy, please don't hate me. I'm only stating what I think. Please don't attack me for expressing my thoughts.

If we can all approach this thread in a calm and thoughtful way it may go a long way to understanding the many sides of this complex problem.

Cheers!

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by 2010SSRS

1st post said $19/hr paycut. see now we're getting somewhere. there is room to renegotiate when ur talking benefits......not sure about $19/hr worth, but nevertheless.

All benefits are considered part of your hrly. I think they should make some concessions if they still want a job also if they union wants the memebers to have more take home pay I am sure they can reduce their membership dues but I am sure that wont happen. Yes I know some of it goes to pension and health and so on..... but honestly I am not pro or con union. I am for what needs to get the job done.