Noob upgrading suspension

[Dexman1349]

Looks like the inserts are fairly easy for a noob like me to install on my own.

What about sway bars? I have changed out shocks/struts/springs before, but never got as far as the sways. Is this a job for someone with jackstands and some hand tools or am I going to need to take this to a shop with a lift?

Regardless of what happens, I will be getting an alignment done afterwards.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Dexman1349

Looks like the inserts are fairly easy for a noob like me to install on my own.

What about sway bars? I have changed out shocks/struts/springs before, but never got as far as the sways. Is this a job for someone with jackstands and some hand tools or am I going to need to take this to a shop with a lift?

Regardless of what happens, I will be getting an alignment done afterwards.

The rear sway bar is cake. It almost falls out. The front bar a bit trickier, but not that bad. Have you ever separated a ball joint from a knuckle?

We did a DIT style ZL1 with lowering coils and sub-frame bushes last week. Here is the Facebook Photo Gallery.

[Dexman1349]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The rear sway bar is cake. It almost falls out. The front bar a bit trickier, but not that bad. Have you ever separated a ball joint from a knuckle?

Honestly, I don't know if I have or not. All of my suspension experience is on a 1998 Nissan Pathfinder.

We did a DIT style ZL1 with lowering coils and sub-frame bushes last week. Here is the Facebook Photo Gallery.

Cool, thanks!


Another quick quesion, what's the difference between the FE2 and FE3 suspensions when looking at sways/bushings/links/etc?

[PfadtRacing]

Originally Posted by Dexman1349

Honestly, I don't know if I have or not. All of my suspension experience is on a 1998 Nissan Pathfinder.



Cool, thanks!


Another quick quesion, what's the difference between the FE2 and FE3 suspensions when looking at sways/bushings/links/etc?

The FE2 and FE3 use the same bushings and arms, but they do have different sway bars from the factory. The install procedure to install aftermarket parts will be exactly the same between the two packages.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Dexman1349

Honestly, I don't know if I have or not. All of my suspension experience is on a 1998 Nissan Pathfinder.



Cool, thanks!


Another quick quesion, what's the difference between the FE2 and FE3 suspensions when looking at sways/bushings/links/etc?

There is no difference which makes it easy.

On the front bar, you have a couple of options for removing the old bar and installing the new bar.

1. Remove the Tension / Radius arm rod ball stud from the knuckle, unbolt the four bolts that hold the steering rack in place, slide the rack back and remove / install the bar.

2. Support the engine / cradle, remove the six bolts that hold it in place and raise the engine to create room to remove the bars.

If you can do struts, you can do this.

[Dexman1349]

^^^ I'm assuming this is all done with the car off the ground and the wheels left unsupported?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Dexman1349

^^^ I'm assuming this is all done with the car off the ground and the wheels left unsupported?

More DIY Pictures

[danvillekidd]

Originally Posted by Dexman1349

Looks like the inserts are fairly easy for a noob like me to install on my own.

What about sway bars? I have changed out shocks/struts/springs before, but never got as far as the sways. Is this a job for someone with jackstands and some hand tools or am I going to need to take this to a shop with a lift?

Regardless of what happens, I will be getting an alignment done afterwards.

I'm new at suspension stuff too and I was able to remove the front bar in my garage with just jack stands and jack. Lift car onto stands then lift the engine. Slides out drivers side (wheel off). No special tools needed.

[Rob@WretchedMS]

just make sure you use a piece of wood on the jack so you don't damage the oil pan.

it's not that hard to do once you get in there.

[Dexman1349]

I know I said I'd prefer not to lower the car but...

Starting with a pedder's Street 1 insert kit & a 27mm front sway (with endlinks), would I be better off with a 27mm rear sway bar or a full 1" lowering spring (front & back)? Or for arguments sake, is the Street 1 kit and front sway enough??

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Dexman1349

I know I said I'd prefer not to lower the car but...

Starting with a pedder's Street 1 insert kit & a 27mm front sway (with endlinks), would I be better off with a 27mm rear sway bar or a full 1" lowering spring (front & back)? Or for arguments sake, is the Street 1 kit and front sway enough??

We follow a a practical and sound, from an engineering perspective, strategy. The weakest link, the lowest handing fruit on the 5th Gen is found in the sub-frame and radius bushes. We always start there. Next are spring rate, ride height and damping. Lowering coils address two of the three. Coilovers address all three. This is where your budget plays a significant role. Sway bars are the final tuning element. So many people seem to think of sway bars as Band-Aids to cure everything that needs attention on the 5th Gen. That is a bad plan. Adding anything that increase load to the suspension without addressing the foundation only serves to make the 5th faults more pronounced. Additional load magnifies rear end step out.

With that in mind we move to sway bar and you should be looking at 25mm front bar and the 28mm ZL1 bars or Pedders 27mm front and 32mm rear. The 28mm front bar on the 1LE is not there to improve extreme performance. It is there to induce what the OE engineers feel is an appropriate amount of understeer to keep the driver safe. On the 1LE the tires are the same size all round, on different width wheels,. Squaring up the tire package reduces understeer. If you run the 1LE bars on a 5th Gen with staggered wheels and t6ires you will have more understeer you want at an AC.

Does this help?

[Dexman1349]

^^^ You lost me in the 2nd paragraph. For the 1LE, they needed a larger front bar to add understeer because the larger tires eliminated too much understeer?

Based on your Gen 5 Suspension thread (written back in 2010 and edited since), you rank the improvements as follows:
1) subframe & radius bushes
2) springs/coils
3) sways

Add in the fact that I have never taken my car to a track and 80% of my driving habits are covered by the stock system (under 4/10ths), I don't want to start spending money that won't be utilized (Like grandma buying a Lingenfelter).

Knowing this, as well as my reluctance to lower the car, I'm looking at a Pedder's "Daily Driver" package as a starting point. Not sure if I should add a 27mm rear sway (the Solution B kit), 32mm rear sway (Solution C), lowering springs (then how much lower) or none of the above.

Also, when it comes to the sway bars, how important is it to replace the endlinks?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Dexman1349

^^^ You lost me in the 2nd paragraph. For the 1LE, they needed a larger front bar to add understeer because the larger tires eliminated too much understeer?

Based on your Gen 5 Suspension thread (written back in 2010 and edited since), you rank the improvements as follows:
1) subframe & radius bushes
2) springs/coils
3) sways

Add in the fact that I have never taken my car to a track and 80% of my driving habits are covered by the stock system (under 4/10ths), I don't want to start spending money that won't be utilized (Like grandma buying a Lingenfelter).

Knowing this, as well as my reluctance to lower the car, I'm looking at a Pedder's "Daily Driver" package as a starting point. Not sure if I should add a 27mm rear sway (the Solution B kit), 32mm rear sway (Solution C), lowering springs (then how much lower) or none of the above.

Also, when it comes to the sway bars, how important is it to replace the endlinks?

The good news is that Pedders sway bars come with Pedders High Efficiency OE Quiet Adjustable Endlinks.

If you are not going to lower your 5th Gen we do Street Z bushes. There is no reason we can't run the 27 front and 32mm rear FE3 bars. They will be lightyears better than what you have and budget friendly.

[Dexman1349]

I've seen reports where the Street Z inserts will tear up the existing bushings and cause premature failure.

Unrelated question, how does this work in less than desireable conditions (rain, snow, ice, dirt roads)?