Sold vehicle with undisclosed frame damage

[FJ60]

Originally Posted by Trob85

So if we decide to sell this car, even though it was in a bad accident yet properly repaired, no one will know because there's no paper work.

Properly repaired or not, if a potential buyer asks if the vehicle was in an accident and they are told no by the seller, that is just wrong. Inspite of "buyer beware," I disclosed every flaw of every vehicle I sold because it was the right thing to do. I know many sellers don't share this belief so I always buy new.

[scandata]

Nightmare scenarios like this are part of the reason my last three cars were new off the lot. I'm not saying everyone should (or can) buy new, I'm grateful that I'm able to make that choice. It just helps me sleep at night.

On having a mechanic check it out, make sure the mechanic will be straight about the facts. The one time I did that, the car was from a private owner and he came along. I had been doing business with this shop for a while so they knew me. The mech looked it over and said it looked like a good car and said to go ahead and buy it, so I told the owner I'd call my bank and get things started when I get home. Then when the owner had his back turned for a moment, the mechanic did the phone thing with his hand to his ear and urgently mouthed, "call me right away." When I got home I called him, and he said, "don't buy that car, it's a piece of junk! When I pulled the dipstick out it was full of sludge and smelled like it was burning."
"Then why did you say the car was in good shape and that I should buy it?"
"I didn't want to be rude and say all that about the car in front of the owner."
So I had to call the owner back and tell him that I suddenly changed my mind because the mechanic called and changed his assessment of the car. I felt like an idiot and the guy was pissed off because he probably thought I was lying for some reason. Then on the other hand, he was trying to sell me a car with a time bomb for an engine, so I didn't feel too bad about it.

[rontammy0]

Car dealerships...and car salesman have developed a negative image to the public for a reason.....not all....but not enough to change people's opinions.

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by scandata

Nightmare scenarios like this are part of the reason my last three cars were new off the lot. I'm not saying everyone should (or can) buy new, I'm grateful that I'm able to make that choice. It just helps me sleep at night.

Yes, we're truly blessed.

Originally Posted by scandata

On having a mechanic check it out, make sure the mechanic will be straight about the facts. The one time I did that, the car was from a private owner and he came along. I had been doing business with this shop for a while so they knew me. The mech looked it over and said it looked like a good car and said to go ahead and buy it, so I told the owner I'd call my bank and get things started when I get home. Then when the owner had his back turned for a moment, the mechanic did the phone thing with his hand to his ear and urgently mouthed, "call me right away." When I got home I called him, and he said, "don't buy that car, it's a piece of junk! When I pulled the dipstick out it was full of sludge and smelled like it was burning."
"Then why did you say the car was in good shape and that I should buy it?"
"I didn't want to be rude and say all that about the car in front of the owner."
So I had to call the owner back and tell him that I suddenly changed my mind because the mechanic called and changed his assessment of the car. I felt like an idiot and the guy was pissed off because he probably thought I was lying for some reason. Then on the other hand, he was trying to sell me a car with a time bomb for an engine, so I didn't feel too bad about it.

IMO, if the mechanic is being paid to provide an assessment, it's what he should do - good or bad. Showing the owner the dipstick has sludge & smells like it's burning, is either informing him of something he didn't know or demonstrating that he can't pull the wool over a buyer's eyes. Instead, by stating it's a "good car" & "go ahead & buy it", the mechanic is making you the 'bad guy' & thereby throwing you under the bus.

[Houseofhotrods]

Originally Posted by kansjfr

Houseofhotrods is exactly right. I'm an attorney AND a used car dealer. My integrity and reputation is way too important to be screwing someone on some damned car deal. Unless the dealer disclosed the frame damage to you, they are liable, and if they won't negate the deal (you may have to pay for the miles you've driven the car) get an attorney and you'll get it done. You need to get out of this deal because the car will be, thanks to Carfax, branded as frame-damaged, which will make it very hard (expensive) to trade in or sell. And since you know it's been frame damaged you have a legal duty to disclose that to whoever would buy it from you, or you could get sued for fraud.

kansjfr - that's a pretty cool combo of careers, betting you get to have some fun with that now and then, especially when a customer tells you 'my attorney says....' You are very right about the legal duty of the seller of a vehicle. It's one thing when we don't know, a whole 'nother when we do. It's a sucky situation, and one that should be made right - which is the true test of any sucky situation - how it ends. The dealer you purchased from has an excellent opportunity to show how much integrity they have, or don't have!

[shotime]

I believe they made up the young lady story due to the Bluetooth had a women's voice on it haha. Yes I definitely found some of the damage underneath the cover for the cabin air filter is all patched with a very very bad weld job also under the frame is a weld that is very obviously not a factory weld. The dealership told me after they "inspected it" there's clearly no frame damage until I showed them the weld on the frame where the mechanic told me "I'm the mechanic and I'm telling you that it's not damaged" not that great of a mechanic because the weld looks like a 10 year old did it and I'm fairly certain Chevy wouldn't claim it as there weld. The dealership told me it's a "typo" by the auction and they will try to get it situated. That's the gm that told me this. Even though I can show him where the weld is. Terrible terrible experience.

[sdynak]

Post some of those weld pictures here.. these folks know forget that shop mechanic .. Good to hear ya going after them.. totally unethical in every aspect to sell a call with that on the report knowingly and not disclosing.

[scandata]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

Instead, by stating it's a "good car" & "go ahead & buy it", the mechanic is making you the 'bad guy' & thereby throwing you under the bus.

Exactly. He was pretty young, and obviously intimidated by conflicts, but that day he needed to grow a pair and be honest instead of making me his scapegoat. Luckily, since I was a regular at that shop he didn't charge me to look at the car, but it still cost me some dignity when I called the owner back and reneged on what was a done deal.

[Houseofhotrods]

Originally Posted by shotime

I believe they made up the young lady story due to the Bluetooth had a women's voice on it haha. Yes I definitely found some of the damage underneath the cover for the cabin air filter is all patched with a very very bad weld job also under the frame is a weld that is very obviously not a factory weld. The dealership told me after they "inspected it" there's clearly no frame damage until I showed them the weld on the frame where the mechanic told me "I'm the mechanic and I'm telling you that it's not damaged" not that great of a mechanic because the weld looks like a 10 year old did it and I'm fairly certain Chevy wouldn't claim it as there weld. The dealership told me it's a "typo" by the auction and they will try to get it situated. That's the gm that told me this. Even though I can show him where the weld is. Terrible terrible experience.

Sad, and embarrassing. Let's get the 'typo' wiped off instead of let's make it right? The GM works for the dealer, not just the dealership and should be that dealer of record's right hand man, unless it's part of a large group/chain, but there is still someone who's name is on the building or responsible for what goes on in it, seems that should be the next logical step. Often a GM is simply 'insulation' to keep customers away from the dealer him or herself. I am fortunate to work for a man who doesn't see it that way and is available, but since we handle 'stuff', he doesnt often need to be. But. The GM may be simply the dealer's puppet, if so, the dealership's social media sites - Yelp, Google reputation, Facebook and such should know, so other customers can be wary too. If no positive response from the dealer principal go to the Department of Justice for your state. File the proper forms and let them know you aren't giving up. Wow.....

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by scandata

Exactly. He was pretty young, and obviously intimidated by conflicts, but that day he needed to grow a pair and be honest instead of making me his scapegoat. Luckily, since I was a regular at that shop he didn't charge me to look at the car, but it still cost me some dignity when I called the owner back and reneged on what was a done deal.

Then it seems you got what you paid for, but at least you didn't end up with a junk vehicle. I wonder what the mechanic would've done if you pulled out your wallet or checkbook to buy it on the spot.

[shotime]

I'm on my phone will upload photos later. I'm not going to bad rep due to the situation still being worked on. Hopefully good outcome

[Avenging Orange]

To me....it depends on what you paid for the car. If you got a great deal.....then subtract what the decrease in value is. If its very small, then yoy got a deal. If you paid top dollar, you got screwed.

[D3R3K]

I've got extensive experience with this due to owning a small car lot and buying and selling from the auction on a weekly basis. The whole "frame damage" thing is bullshit. It's nothing more than a guy with a check list checking a box for frame damage. It can be as little as when a car is put on a lift and it dents in the metal from the lift point.

I've bought cars for cheap that are marked frame damage, have a clean carfax and I've been unable to find damage or see anything or any signs of a previous repair. Car max did this to me in the past where a customer went to trade a car in and somehow they have the auction inspection report. And then they think I've screwed them somehow. It's highly debatable due to the fact of the inspector isn't usually a highly trained master technician but just a guy with a clipboard and pen that isn't a mechanic.

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by Avenging Orange

To me....it depends on what you paid for the car. If you got a great deal.....then subtract what the decrease in value is. If its very small, then yoy got a deal. If you paid top dollar, you got screwed.

The amount paid is irrelevant. Even if only $1 was paid for the car, if there's frame damage of which the dealership knew & didn't disclose, then there's a problem.