What's YOUR Ideal "Racy" Camaro?

[IamJacksCamaro]

Voted LS7. I think the Z/28 should make it's power without a supercharger.

[mikel441]

Originally Posted by IamJacksCamaro

Voted LS7. I think the Z/28 should make it's power without a supercharger.

[htron50]

I know I am in the minority here, when it comes to what I want as a "racy" emblem, icon, "i-car-nic" or whatever you want to call it (garage queen?). But, if I had to choose between a Corvette ZR1 or a Z06/7, I'd "choose" the ZR1. In the Camaro case, I choose the ZL1. At this time in GM/Chevrolet history, in this time of uncertainty over where our automotive industry is headed, in this time in MY life cycle, the Camaro ZL1 removes all doubt about whether or not I have participated in a RARE piece of history and been given the opportunity to own it in my very own driveway and garage, while I still have the health to enjoy it and share that joy. No, it is not a Z28, the most well known icon in Camaro history. But it IS the pinnacle of Camaro history/heritage as those who have created it will attest.

And that's good enough for me.

I understand the purist in all who want a Z28. I, too, wanted it ever so badly in the lead up to the ZL1. I was confused when ZL1 was announced, and at my age (60+)that's hard to do to me. I had to research "ZL1" to find out why that meant more than "COPO"; But it didn't take long to find out what was happening, why it was happening, and how those in the design and development did it while the getting was good! Thanks GM. I hope the next few weeks my dream comes true.

Let's hope the Z28 does come out soon. Something tells me it is going to be about as much car as the ZL1; So ALL will be happy regardless of which one you get.

The talk of "heat soak", "normally aspirated", "dry sump", "MR", etc etc are great issues. But no matter which one you choose, you will be a winner!

[zogster]

I'd rather see an engine that is what the LS6 was to the LS1 but using the LS3 as the base instead of LS1. Basically a hotter cam and a few other upgrades. Something like 460HP.

Most of the upgrade should be suspension. With basically an LS3 with a hotter cam, it shouldn't cost much if any more to build than the regular LS3, the cost of the Z/28 over the SS would be kept down.

[wildpaws]

High revving N/A engine, excellent suspension and brakes. Leave the MR suspension to the ZL1. Make a Z/28 package that is worthy of it's early heritage.
Clyde

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by htron50

I know I am in the minority here, when it comes to what I want as a "racy" emblem, icon, "i-car-nic" or whatever you want to call it (garage queen?). But, if I had to choose between a Corvette ZR1 or a Z06/7, I'd "choose" the ZR1. In the Camaro case, I choose the ZL1. At this time in GM/Chevrolet history, in this time of uncertainty over where our automotive industry is headed, in this time in MY life cycle, the Camaro ZL1 removes all doubt about whether or not I have participated in a RARE piece of history and been given the opportunity to own it in my very own driveway and garage, while I still have the health to enjoy it and share that joy. No, it is not a Z28, the most well known icon in Camaro history. But it IS the pinnacle of Camaro history/heritage as those who have created it will attest.

And that's good enough for me.

I understand the purist in all who want a Z28. I, too, wanted it ever so badly in the lead up to the ZL1. I was confused when ZL1 was announced, and at my age (60+)that's hard to do to me. I had to research "ZL1" to find out why that meant more than "COPO"; But it didn't take long to find out what was happening, why it was happening, and how those in the design and development did it while the getting was good! Thanks GM. I hope the next few weeks my dream comes true.

Let's hope the Z28 does come out soon. Something tells me it is going to be about as much car as the ZL1; So ALL will be happy regardless of which one you get.

The talk of "heat soak", "normally aspirated", "dry sump", "MR", etc etc are great issues. But no matter which one you choose, you will be a winner!

Good summation! The bottom line is, both the ZL1 and a Z/28 are Camaros with a huge heritage, either choice will be the right one as long as it fits YOUR wants and needs. BTW, love that '67 Goat in your avatar. A good friend of mine back in the day had a new '67 GTO with three deuces and 4 speed, fun car that I rode in a lot.
Clyde

[shank0668]

Originally Posted by wildpaws

High revving N/A engine, excellent suspension and brakes. Leave the MR suspension to the ZL1. Make a Z/28 package that is worthy of it's early heritage.
Clyde

Next gen v8's?

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by zogster

I'd rather see an engine that is what the LS6 was to the LS1 but using the LS3 as the base instead of LS1. Basically a hotter cam and a few other upgrades. Something like 460HP.

Most of the upgrade should be suspension. With basically an LS3 with a hotter cam, it shouldn't cost much if any more to build than the regular LS3, the cost of the Z/28 over the SS would be kept down.

And therein lies my personal fear...the beancounters win...AGAIN!


Mark my words: If a Zee, as described here, could be built without spending much/any over an SS, you can bet your bippy it'll MSRP for BOSS money or more...without BOSS talent/ability...and be another $ellout in the name of profits.

Or, in fact, is this the "New GM", where the name won't be bastardized in the name of profits, and a ZEE (all caps) will BUST the BOSS-bronco?!

Don't let us down, Team!!!

[zogster]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

And therein lies my personal fear...the beancounters win...AGAIN!


Mark my words: If a Zee, as described here, could be built without spending much/any over an SS, you can bet your bippy it'll MSRP for BOSS money or more...without BOSS talent/ability...and be another $ellout in the name of profits.

Or, in fact, is this the "New GM", where the name won't be bastardized in the name of profits, and a ZEE (all caps) will BUST the BOSS-bronco?!

Don't let us down, Team!!!

What is "BOSS talent/ability"?

The car I described sounds like what the BOSS is to the GT.

Ford revived the Boss 302 nameplate for 2012. The 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 takes a standard 2011 Ford Mustang GT’s 5.0-liter V8 and adds an upgraded intake system and revised engine producing 444 naturally aspirated horsepower – a 32 horsepower jump over the standard GT’s 412 hp via a forged rotating assembly, CNC ported heads, revised camshafts and a high flow "runners in the box" intake taken from the 302R racecar.[10] The engine generates 380 lb-ft. of torque and comes with an upgraded six-speed MT-82 manual transmission. A 3.73 rear axle uses carbon fiber plates in its limited slip differential or an optional Torsen differential. The intake system has also been reengineered to provide a growl under hard acceleration, while the quad exhaust system made up of two standard Mustang GT outlets and two side pipes that exit on either side of the rear crossover. The side pipes send the exhaust through a set of metal discs to create an extra growling exhaust sound. The disc is removable and includes a spacer plate sized to match aftermarket exhaust dump valves.
The Boss 302 takes the Mustang GT’s suspension and adds higher-rate coil springs, stiffer bushings, and a larger diameter rear stabilizer bar. The body is lowered 11 mm up front and just 1 mm in the rear to give it a more raked stance designed to recall the original. The shocks are adjustable at the shock tower by using a flat head screwdriver. The standard Mustang traction and stability control programs have been altered with a new intermediate sport mode designed to allow for more flexibility on the track.
The aero package is almost entirely copied from the Boss 302R race car. The 19-inch black-alloy racing wheels are 9-inches wide up front and 9.5-inches out back and come within Pirelli P-Zero tires.

So the engine is basically a GT with ported heads, different intake and cam, and then they changed the exhaust, not sure if that adds more power though.

The rest is cosmetic and suspension.

What's the difference between the BOSS engine and an LS3 with the same upgrades going in a Z/28?

[LOWDOWN]

Drive a GT...drive a BOSS... The comparison is as stark as an SS 350 vs. a Gen-1 Z/28. Sometimes the result is greater than the sum of the parts...and the BOSS result is dramatically different than a GT. A LOT of time and attention went into its development, and its road course times are significantly superior to the GT...as is the overall "feel" of the car. Have you driven either/both? Better start there...

As to spending development buck$ on a late-Gen LS for this one-time-only Gen-5 ZEE, the "prediction" seems to be centered on utilizing a current, on-the-shelf-and-ready-to-go engine...and in a 200+ lb. heavier chassis than the 444 hp BOSS, the way to get there quickly is with the LS7 with 500+ hp... The GMPP "hot LS3" is NOT a production-ready engine..."off-road only".

At a 480 hp rating (and less torque than an LS7), the hot LS3, AT BEST, might MATCH the BOSS, not stomp it...and that depends on suspension/brakes/tires/final Curb Weight, as well. With 500+ from an LS7...WOW!

Think of it as the difference between a Vette with the GS Package...and a Z06...only this time, the competitors aren't in-house!

[zogster]

The LS7 is stupid expensive though. I bet it costs as much as the LSA.

[LOWDOWN]

$7,000 more, in crate form, than a crate LS3...

[mikel441]

The price difference between LS7 and LSA is negligible. IMO.

http://paceperformance.com/i-6255553...ne-505-hp.html

http://paceperformance.com/i-6255521...te-engine.html

[zogster]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

$7,000 more, in crate form, than a crate LS3...

Yeah, that's stupid expensive.

Throw $1000 into the LS3 and make the "LS28."

465HP is pretty easy to get out of the LS3 with a hot cam, upgraded intake manifold, better air intake and better exhaust. It's already at 426HP without any of those. 40HP crank is easy with those mods on an LS3.

So there's you're relatively cheap engine. Now spend your $6000 on the suspension upgrades that the BOSS has...

So you're looking at $7k over an SS. That's about right... $39K to start, $46k loaded up, if Chevy decides to build a "1Z/28" and "2Z/28" if you will.