Bob Lutz on a twin turbo Camaro... - Page 5 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Super83Z · 11-17-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PUNCH IT

I for one am pissed that GM painted themselves into a corner by using the SS badge on everything from trucks to HHR's and cobalts, so that now they have to resurect Z28 as an upgraded model to the SS.

You should be just as pissed at the Zxx moniker:

Z24 Cavaliers
Z26 Berettas
Z34 Luminas

At least the Cobalt and HHR were fast.

ShnOmac · 11-17-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PUNCH IT

The TTv6 would make a perfect Z28 because it would be almost as powerful as a V8, but it would be lighter and quicker in the twisties

How do you figure it would be lighter than the SS?

Hylton · 11-17-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PUNCH IT

I don't understand why everyone thinks the Z28 has to be more powerful than the SS. The Z28 has never been more powerfull than the SS. The old aluminum DZ302 motors were lighter, and the cars had better handling/braking than the SS for road racing. They were never more powerful than the SS's.

I for one am pissed that GM painted themselves into a corner by using the SS badge on everything from trucks to HHR's and cobalts, so that now they have to resurect Z28 as an upgraded model to the SS.

The TTv6 would make a perfect Z28 because it would be almost as powerful as a V8, but it would be lighter and quicker in the twisties.

I think they should offer the TT V6 with upgraded suspension/brakes like the old Z28, as a Z28, and make an even more powerful SS, maybe LSA, or LS7.

Just my 2 cents, but you know I'm right.

DZ302 motors were never aluminium but that aside - thank you for your rational thought regarding this cars viability.

*radz28* · 11-17-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PUNCH IT

I don't understand why everyone thinks the Z28 has to be more powerful than the SS. The Z28 has never been more powerfull than the SS. The old aluminum DZ302 motors were lighter, and the cars had better handling/braking than the SS for road racing. They were never more powerful than the SS's.

I for one am pissed that GM painted themselves into a corner by using the SS badge on everything from trucks to HHR's and cobalts, so that now they have to resurect Z28 as an upgraded model to the SS.

The TTv6 would make a perfect Z28 because it would be almost as powerful as a V8, but it would be lighter and quicker in the twisties.

I think they should offer the TT V6 with upgraded suspension/brakes like the old Z28, as a Z28, and make an even more powerful SS, maybe LSA, or LS7.

Just my 2 cents, but you know I'm right.

WHERE IS THE WEIGHT SAVINGS?! Arg! Yeah - you can TT a V6 and make more power than LSA and LS7, but is it going to meet NVH requirements; is it going to pass smog; is it really going to be as fuel efficient as SS? I don't know about the last statement either...

matt55 · 11-17-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_Username

It wouldn't get a good 0-60 time compared to the SS considering the turbo needs time to spool up. IMO, .

umm
the LAST turbo motor GM made spooled up very quick , TQ peaks quicker than the LS3

EDIT dang thats a big pic !

PUNCH IT · 11-17-2009, 02:30 PM

Your right, I goofed on the 302 being aluminum. Doh! But it was still lighter for road racing while still retaining good power.

The Z28 can be lighter, with suspension/brake upgrades, but it can't be more powerful than the SS.

It just can't.

ShnOmac · 11-17-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radz282003

WHERE IS THE WEIGHT SAVINGS?!

I keep asking the same thing....

a_Username · 11-17-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PUNCH IT

Your right, I goofed on the 302 being aluminum. Doh! But it was still lighter for road racing while still retaining good power.

The Z28 can be lighter, with suspension/brake upgrades, but it can't be more powerful than the SS.

It just can't.

It was. Again research it for yourself, the motor dyno'd around 400 HP making it more powerful than even the SS's 396.

And @matt55, that one peaked quicker to less torque.

OUTATIME · 11-17-2009, 02:45 PM

People asking for a 3200 lb 2012 Camaro are going to be extremely disappointed unless this thing is built off of a Geo Prizm or something.

Get over it - it will be at least as heavy as the SS or more. Unless you want to remove airbags, side impact beams, roof structuring, hell - in the Camaro's case the ENTIRE rear quarter panel (which makes the car IMO). No seats? No dash? No A/C in a "modern sports coupe"? How about the 21 inch rims everyone is obsessed with? Can we keep those?

end rant.

ShnOmac · 11-17-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OUTATIME

People asking for a 3200 lb 2012 Camaro are going to be extremely disappointed

3200 lb Camaro..... The Grand sport comes in at 3340

matt55 · 11-17-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_Username

.

And @matt55, that one peaked quicker to less torque.

point was spool , not 248WTQ from a 122ci motor

a_Username · 11-17-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt55

point was spool , not 248WTQ from a 122ci motor

Either way... The LS3 wouldn't have to spool anything. If they are at similar HP numbers, it would either be a little worse or about even.

PUNCH IT · 11-17-2009, 03:18 PM

67-69 camaro 302's produced 290 HP.

http://wiki.gmnext.com/wiki/index.ph...evrolet_Camaro

http://ss396.com/1969/Camaro/parts/1969_Camaro.htm

Vega · 11-17-2009, 03:27 PM

First of all the Z/28 was more powerful than the SS, the SS with the 396 put around 350hp give or take, the Z/28 was rated at 290...rated...but that was just to get an advantage in the Trans Am series, the engines really put out a number closer to 420, so yes the Z/28 was more powerful and it had more aggressive gearing (wikipedia, video games, magazines, and anything else "official" will say 290hp just because that was GM's final word on the matter, that doesnt mean its true and it very much wasnt, the dynos were and still are closer to 420)

Anyways in response to this thread, may i be the first to smack my forehead...if you can already buy a 425hp Camaro what the hell is all the hype about a new one, lol, so what its a turbo V6 the V8 does that with not a damn thing attatched and thats where the bragging rights go, lol, and besides there wont be much weight savings, the V6 isnt THAT much lighter than the V8 and even then all the turbo stuff will even it out plus there'll still lower torque, the V6 is the economy car, not the performance car, stop trying to make it the performance car and all you tuners stop whining about it, this is a CAMARO not a friggin Civic, go rice out your 92' import-mobile...and if they do make a twin turbo V6 it better be the base engine for LT models (like Ford's doing with the Mustang) and that V8 better get the same 100hp boost, otherwise im totally not feeling the hype...plus the Z/28 needs to be the performance forerunner of the group, skim down all the luxury items (back seats stay, sorry guys this isnt a corvette its still a pony car) the most i'll let slide is leather, sunroof, and Bose radio, other than that throw all the other dumb accessories out cause they're making these cars cost too much as it is and its just the really retarted picky people who want them, us who are still into muscle cars and not luxury/muscle cars can handle having to put our key in the column and twist to start the engine...i know its a stretch, i know, but trust me, it does in fact work...

LOL...*end rant*

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11-17-2009, 02:30 PM	#62
PUNCH IT Drives: 2017 NGM SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hillsboro, Oregon Posts: 53	Your right, I goofed on the 302 being aluminum. Doh! But it was still lighter for road racing while still retaining good power. The Z28 can be lighter, with suspension/brake upgrades, but it can't be more powerful than the SS. It just can't.

11-17-2009, 02:45 PM	#65
OUTATIME Drives: 2010 IOM 2SS/RS Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 633	People asking for a 3200 lb 2012 Camaro are going to be extremely disappointed unless this thing is built off of a Geo Prizm or something. Get over it - it will be at least as heavy as the SS or more. Unless you want to remove airbags, side impact beams, roof structuring, hell - in the Camaro's case the ENTIRE rear quarter panel (which makes the car IMO). No seats? No dash? No A/C in a "modern sports coupe"? How about the 21 inch rims everyone is obsessed with? Can we keep those? end rant.

11-17-2009, 03:18 PM	#69
PUNCH IT Drives: 2017 NGM SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hillsboro, Oregon Posts: 53	67-69 camaro 302's produced 290 HP. http://wiki.gmnext.com/wiki/index.ph...evrolet_Camaro http://ss396.com/1969/Camaro/parts/1969_Camaro.htm

11-17-2009, 03:27 PM	#70
Vega Drives: 91' Camaro RS Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 589 View My Garage	First of all the Z/28 was more powerful than the SS, the SS with the 396 put around 350hp give or take, the Z/28 was rated at 290...rated...but that was just to get an advantage in the Trans Am series, the engines really put out a number closer to 420, so yes the Z/28 was more powerful and it had more aggressive gearing (wikipedia, video games, magazines, and anything else "official" will say 290hp just because that was GM's final word on the matter, that doesnt mean its true and it very much wasnt, the dynos were and still are closer to 420) Anyways in response to this thread, may i be the first to smack my forehead...if you can already buy a 425hp Camaro what the hell is all the hype about a new one, lol, so what its a turbo V6 the V8 does that with not a damn thing attatched and thats where the bragging rights go, lol, and besides there wont be much weight savings, the V6 isnt THAT much lighter than the V8 and even then all the turbo stuff will even it out plus there'll still lower torque, the V6 is the economy car, not the performance car, stop trying to make it the performance car and all you tuners stop whining about it, this is a CAMARO not a friggin Civic, go rice out your 92' import-mobile...and if they do make a twin turbo V6 it better be the base engine for LT models (like Ford's doing with the Mustang) and that V8 better get the same 100hp boost, otherwise im totally not feeling the hype...plus the Z/28 needs to be the performance forerunner of the group, skim down all the luxury items (back seats stay, sorry guys this isnt a corvette its still a pony car) the most i'll let slide is leather, sunroof, and Bose radio, other than that throw all the other dumb accessories out cause they're making these cars cost too much as it is and its just the really retarted picky people who want them, us who are still into muscle cars and not luxury/muscle cars can handle having to put our key in the column and twist to start the engine...i know its a stretch, i know, but trust me, it does in fact work... LOL...end rant