MERGED: Has anyone read this (bankruptcy) about GM? - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

PsyDoc · 11-07-2008, 12:12 PM

So, let me get this straight. Right about the same time Congress passed the $700 billion bailout bill, they also passed a $25 billion dollar bailout for the big three. Granted, the bailout for the big three received little attention. Now, the big three are coming back to the table because they are still hungry? What the hell?!

TomServo · 11-07-2008, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsyDoc

So, let me get this straight. Right about the same time Congress passed the $700 billion bailout bill, they also passed a $25 billion dollar bailout for the big three. Granted, the bailout for the big three received little attention. Now, the big three are coming back to the table because they are still hungry? What the hell?!

I don't believe that $25B has been handed out yet. ******************************************

LS9CamaroSS · 11-07-2008, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsyDoc

So, let me get this straight. Right about the same time Congress passed the $700 billion bailout bill, they also passed a $25 billion dollar bailout for the big three. Granted, the bailout for the big three received little attention. Now, the big three are coming back to the table because they are still hungry? What the hell?!

the 25$ billion bailout hasn't been finalized just yet i don't think...besides the auto companies are getting loans not grants like wall street so it isn't as bad as it sounds...

Design1stCode2nd · 11-07-2008, 12:19 PM

The camaro is ready to roll the only problem is if GM enters Chapter 11 before it can ship. One thing is for sure, forget about any kind of Z28.

The problem here is even if the Gov bails them out it will be good money after bad unless the file chap 11 and restructure under its legal protection. GM is currently insolvent, the owe more than they have so any money just given to them will be used to pay the existing debt they already owe.

Design1stCode2nd · 11-07-2008, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LS9CamaroSS

the 25$ billion bailout hasn't been finalized just yet i don't think...besides the auto companies are getting loans not grants like wall street so it isn't as bad as it sounds...

Yes it is. Direct from GM's press release:

Quote:

"Even if GM implements the planned operating actions that are substantially within its control, GM's estimated liquidity during the remainder of 2008 will approach the minimum amount necessary to operate its business. Looking into the first two quarters of 2009, even with its planned actions, the company's estimated liquidity will fall significantly short of that amount unless economic and automotive industry conditions significantly improve, it receives substantial proceeds from asset sales, takes more aggressive working capital initiatives, gains access to capital markets and other private sources of funding, receives government funding under one or more current or future programs, or some combination of the foregoing."

To summarize "Give us gubment money or we go tits up".

Rallyman6 · 11-07-2008, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96CAMaro

Well that sucks. No offense to Ford and Dodge, but I hope that they are doing as bad as GM is. Oops, did I say that out loud?

They are in pretty bad shape - Well all the auto manufacturers are in that case.

Rogue Leader · 11-07-2008, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenrail

What even saddens me more is that Renault-Nissan is one of the groups considering taking over Chrysler.

I know that Renault of today isn't the same as back in the early '80's.

But oh brother talk about a strange turn of events. They ripped the heart out of AMC. I can just imagine what they would do with Chrysler.

Um, Chrysler was the one who bought AMC, not Renault, and yes ripped its heart out. I'm not sure if thats what you meant or what.....

PsyDoc · 11-07-2008, 12:28 PM

According to the article, the bill was passed on the weekend (September 27th & 28th).
===================
The Wall Street Journal reports, "The Senate voted 78 to 12 to pass a broad, must-pass spending bill that includes $7.5 billion to start the loan program. The House passed the bill earlier in the week, and President George W. Bush is expected to sign it."
===================
Bush signed the bill on Tuesday, September 30th. Right now, it appears to me that the big three are looking for more money.

LS9CamaroSS · 11-07-2008, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

Um, Chrysler was the one who bought AMC, not Renault, and yes ripped its heart out. I'm not sure if thats what you meant or what.....

Renault owned AMC before Chrysler bought it from them... before that it was a conglomerate of the old car makers like hudson and the sort... kinda funny how it might be the other way around again eh?

Rallyman6 · 11-07-2008, 12:32 PM

As I mentioned before - everyone is suffering:

Also not helping: Toyota Motor Corp. Toyota may be Detroit's arch-rival on Main Street, but on Wall Street, everybody shares in the misery. This morning, Toyota announced shrunken profits for the most recent quarter and reduced its revenue and earnings forecasts for the fiscal year ending in March.

On the quarter, Toyota's earnings slipped to 139.8 billion yen ($1.4 billion), a 69% decline from a year earlier, and revenue dropped 8%, to 5.98 trillion yen ($60 billion). Toyota forecast earnings of $5.5 billion for the fiscal year, less than half its original projection of $12.6 billion. As a result, Toyota's shares fell $13.28, to $67.09, a 16.5% decline.

All in all, automaker stocks look terrible, worldwide. Every major publicly traded carmaker was down today, with Honda slipping almost as much as Toyota. And in the medium term, it's not any prettier. A chart of six major carmakers: Toyota, GM, Ford, Honda Motor Co., Nissan Motor Co. and Daimler AG, shows that the best performing among them -- Toyota -- is down nearly 10% in the last two months. Honda is down over 20%, Nissan and Daimler over 30%, GM over 40% and Ford is in the rear, down over 50%.
Just be glad your 401(k) isn't loaded down with companies that make car parts. A quick look at six leading suppliers to the industry paint a grim picture. Since Sept. 5, powertrain and turbocharger maker BorgWarner Inc., along with jack-of-all-trades suppliers Magna Intl. and Johnson Controls Inc., are all down around 40% -- and that makes them relative shining lights in the sector. Battery maker Exide Technologies is down nearly 60%, axle-and-driveshaft specialist Dana Corp. around 70%, while Visteon Corp. and Lear Corp. have both lost more than 80% of their value in just two months.

Some suggest that suppliers may have a larger upside than carmakers, because they too will likely have a crack at the $25 billion in government-backed loans coming out soon. Then again, because suppliers catch pneumonia every time carmakers sneeze, to butcher a common refrain, their future may not be so bright.

In a speech on Wednesday to the Original Equipment Suppliers Assn., a parts-maker group, in Detroit, Troy Clarke, president of GM North America, made it clear that the company expected its suppliers to play nice.

"Suppliers who want to work with GM need to understand our footprint and our areas of growth," Clarke said. "They need to be staffed appropriately to handle that business, and they need to understand what consumers want and help automakers get ahead of the curve. And they need to be ready to change direction as market forces demand."

--Ken Bensinger

--------------------------------------------------------------------

BMW, Mercedes October Sales Drop as Credit Crunch Saps Demand

By Chris Reiter

Nov. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Bayerische Motoren Werke AG and Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz Cars unit, the world's top two makers of luxury cars, sold a combined 31,000 fewer vehicles last month as the credit crunch discouraged large purchases by consumers.

BMW, which also owns the Mini and Rolls-Royce auto brands, said today that sales fell 8.3 percent to 113,005 cars and sport- utility vehicles from 123,300 vehicles a year earlier. Stuttgart, Germany-based Daimler said deliveries of Mercedes-Benz, Smart, and Maybach vehicles fell 18 percent to 93,800 from 114,600.

``Generally, we're feeling the effects of the poor market developments,'' while models nearing renewal are adding pressure, Verena Mueller, a spokeswoman for Mercedes-Benz, said in a telephone interview. Sales of the E-Class sedan fell 35 percent to 12,100 in advance of the introduction of a new version in March, even as the model kept its position atop the segment in Germany, she said.

Auto sales in the U.S., BMW's largest market and Mercedes's second-biggest, plummeted 32 percent in October to the lowest monthly total since January 1991. BMW scrapped its 2008 profit target on Nov. 4, while Daimler slashed 1 billion euros ($1.28 billion) from its 2008 earnings forecast on Oct. 23. BMW plans to cut production by 65,000 cars and SUVs, while Mercedes is curtailing output by more than 45,000 vehicles.
`Extremely Challenging' Market

BMW anticipates a decline in vehicle sales for the full year because of ``the extremely challenging conditions,'' Ian Robertson, the Munich-based carmaker's sales chief, said in a statement today, reiterating a forecast released Nov. 4. ``The retail gains made in our growth markets were unable to fully offset'' declines in western Europe, Japan and the U.S.

Mature markets hurt sales at both carmakers. BMW posted a 12 percent drop in western Europe, a 5 percent decline in the U.S. and a 29 percent plunge in Japan. Mercedes-Benz Cars' sales dropped 18 percent in western Europe, 25 percent in the U.S. and 34 percent in Japan to 1,800.
China was among the few markets to provide increases. BMW's deliveries in the country climbed 36 percent to 5,280 vehicles, while Mercedes-Benz's jumped 43 percent to 3,700.

Year-to-date global sales at BMW gained 0.7 percent to 1.23 million vehicles, as deliveries of Mini cars advanced 11 percent while demand at the BMW brand slipped 1.1 percent. Mercedes-Benz Cars' year-to-date deliveries rose 1.6 percent to 1.07 million cars and SUVs because of a 41 percent jump for the Smart brand, with the Mercedes-Benz brand reporting a 1.7 percent decline.

ME = Again, everyone is suffering - Our Camaro's will be built; however, your local GM Brand Dealership might not be there after this coming year. The owner of the dealership where I work came back from a meeting and they said 25% of all GM Branded dealerships will disappear within the next 12 months!

D1BADZ · 11-07-2008, 12:32 PM

Well our camaros are being built and we are paying sticker for the most part so, thats good, I just got a dealer ad in my inbox for 38,500 for a 1lt vette, there dropping prices on these like no other

Rogue Leader · 11-07-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

The company also said it will slow down assembly line rates at North American factories beginning next year, but it gave no details. It also said several vehicle new vehicle programs would be delayed, but it would spend more on its Chevrolet Volt electric car and other fuel-efficiency programs.

from: http://www.newsday.com/business/sns-...,1192262.story

I hope we are not one of these delayed new vehicle programs!!

CamaroFan1 · 11-07-2008, 12:59 PM

You know that the government is going to get a loan program in place for GM and Ford, just like the airline industries after 9/11. They are not going to allow them to go completely under due to the huge job losses that would happen, plus the loss in retiree benefits.

I just bought a couple thousand shares of GM stock @ $4.05 this morning. The news about the company is bad now, but once a loan program is announced, the stock is going to go back up, at least temporarily....

I'll use the profit for Camaro mods!

greenrail · 11-07-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

Um, Chrysler was the one who bought AMC, not Renault, and yes ripped its heart out. I'm not sure if thats what you meant or what.....

Please read what I worte. I did not say Renault Bought AMC. And I do know that Chrysler bought AMC. But that was only after the massive "strategic alliance" between AMC and Renault.

Keep in mind, that once Renault entered into partnership with AMC, they virtually wiped out all AMC products except for Jeeps and the Eagle (Which died later in the '80's.)

Once Chrysler bought AMC, they kept a few of the remaining products (Eagle Premier/Dodge Moncao) and folded what was left into the Eagle Division. Eventually letting that die also.

11-07-2008, 12:32 PM	#24
Rallyman6 Member Drives: '10 2SS/RS IOM, Wht Stripes, Roof Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Wellesley Hills, MA Posts: 850 View My Garage	Taken from WSJ - Today As I mentioned before - everyone is suffering: Also not helping: Toyota Motor Corp. Toyota may be Detroit's arch-rival on Main Street, but on Wall Street, everybody shares in the misery. This morning, Toyota announced shrunken profits for the most recent quarter and reduced its revenue and earnings forecasts for the fiscal year ending in March. On the quarter, Toyota's earnings slipped to 139.8 billion yen ($1.4 billion), a 69% decline from a year earlier, and revenue dropped 8%, to 5.98 trillion yen ($60 billion). Toyota forecast earnings of $5.5 billion for the fiscal year, less than half its original projection of $12.6 billion. As a result, Toyota's shares fell $13.28, to $67.09, a 16.5% decline. All in all, automaker stocks look terrible, worldwide. Every major publicly traded carmaker was down today, with Honda slipping almost as much as Toyota. And in the medium term, it's not any prettier. A chart of six major carmakers: Toyota, GM, Ford, Honda Motor Co., Nissan Motor Co. and Daimler AG, shows that the best performing among them -- Toyota -- is down nearly 10% in the last two months. Honda is down over 20%, Nissan and Daimler over 30%, GM over 40% and Ford is in the rear, down over 50%. Just be glad your 401(k) isn't loaded down with companies that make car parts. A quick look at six leading suppliers to the industry paint a grim picture. Since Sept. 5, powertrain and turbocharger maker BorgWarner Inc., along with jack-of-all-trades suppliers Magna Intl. and Johnson Controls Inc., are all down around 40% -- and that makes them relative shining lights in the sector. Battery maker Exide Technologies is down nearly 60%, axle-and-driveshaft specialist Dana Corp. around 70%, while Visteon Corp. and Lear Corp. have both lost more than 80% of their value in just two months. Some suggest that suppliers may have a larger upside than carmakers, because they too will likely have a crack at the $25 billion in government-backed loans coming out soon. Then again, because suppliers catch pneumonia every time carmakers sneeze, to butcher a common refrain, their future may not be so bright. In a speech on Wednesday to the Original Equipment Suppliers Assn., a parts-maker group, in Detroit, Troy Clarke, president of GM North America, made it clear that the company expected its suppliers to play nice. "Suppliers who want to work with GM need to understand our footprint and our areas of growth," Clarke said. "They need to be staffed appropriately to handle that business, and they need to understand what consumers want and help automakers get ahead of the curve. And they need to be ready to change direction as market forces demand." --Ken Bensinger -------------------------------------------------------------------- BMW, Mercedes October Sales Drop as Credit Crunch Saps Demand By Chris Reiter Nov. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Bayerische Motoren Werke AG and Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz Cars unit, the world's top two makers of luxury cars, sold a combined 31,000 fewer vehicles last month as the credit crunch discouraged large purchases by consumers. BMW, which also owns the Mini and Rolls-Royce auto brands, said today that sales fell 8.3 percent to 113,005 cars and sport- utility vehicles from 123,300 vehicles a year earlier. Stuttgart, Germany-based Daimler said deliveries of Mercedes-Benz, Smart, and Maybach vehicles fell 18 percent to 93,800 from 114,600. ``Generally, we're feeling the effects of the poor market developments,'' while models nearing renewal are adding pressure, Verena Mueller, a spokeswoman for Mercedes-Benz, said in a telephone interview. Sales of the E-Class sedan fell 35 percent to 12,100 in advance of the introduction of a new version in March, even as the model kept its position atop the segment in Germany, she said. Auto sales in the U.S., BMW's largest market and Mercedes's second-biggest, plummeted 32 percent in October to the lowest monthly total since January 1991. BMW scrapped its 2008 profit target on Nov. 4, while Daimler slashed 1 billion euros ($1.28 billion) from its 2008 earnings forecast on Oct. 23. BMW plans to cut production by 65,000 cars and SUVs, while Mercedes is curtailing output by more than 45,000 vehicles. `Extremely Challenging' Market BMW anticipates a decline in vehicle sales for the full year because of ``the extremely challenging conditions,'' Ian Robertson, the Munich-based carmaker's sales chief, said in a statement today, reiterating a forecast released Nov. 4. ``The retail gains made in our growth markets were unable to fully offset'' declines in western Europe, Japan and the U.S. Mature markets hurt sales at both carmakers. BMW posted a 12 percent drop in western Europe, a 5 percent decline in the U.S. and a 29 percent plunge in Japan. Mercedes-Benz Cars' sales dropped 18 percent in western Europe, 25 percent in the U.S. and 34 percent in Japan to 1,800. China was among the few markets to provide increases. BMW's deliveries in the country climbed 36 percent to 5,280 vehicles, while Mercedes-Benz's jumped 43 percent to 3,700. Year-to-date global sales at BMW gained 0.7 percent to 1.23 million vehicles, as deliveries of Mini cars advanced 11 percent while demand at the BMW brand slipped 1.1 percent. Mercedes-Benz Cars' year-to-date deliveries rose 1.6 percent to 1.07 million cars and SUVs because of a 41 percent jump for the Smart brand, with the Mercedes-Benz brand reporting a 1.7 percent decline. *ME =* Again, everyone is suffering - Our Camaro's will be built; however, your local GM Brand Dealership might not be there after this coming year. The owner of the dealership where I work came back from a meeting and they said 25% of all GM Branded dealerships will disappear within the next 12 months! __________________ 2SS/RS IOM, Wht Stripes, 6MT, IO Interior, Roof, Eibach Sways, BC Coilovers, BMR Swing arms,Barton Short Shift, BBK LT's, GMPP exhaust, Hi-Flow Cats, MAST Stage 2 Cam, CAI = 470RWHP

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11-07-2008, 12:12 PM	#15
PsyDoc Drives: Soon-to-be 1st Gen Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Southeast Posts: 249	So, let me get this straight. Right about the same time Congress passed the $700 billion bailout bill, they also passed a $25 billion dollar bailout for the big three. Granted, the bailout for the big three received little attention. Now, the big three are coming back to the table because they are still hungry? What the hell?!

11-07-2008, 12:19 PM	#18
Design1stCode2nd Drives: four wheels Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: usa Posts: 585	The camaro is ready to roll the only problem is if GM enters Chapter 11 before it can ship. One thing is for sure, forget about any kind of Z28. The problem here is even if the Gov bails them out it will be good money after bad unless the file chap 11 and restructure under its legal protection. GM is currently insolvent, the owe more than they have so any money just given to them will be used to pay the existing debt they already owe.

11-07-2008, 12:28 PM	#22
PsyDoc Drives: Soon-to-be 1st Gen Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Southeast Posts: 249	According to the article, the bill was passed on the weekend (September 27th & 28th). =================== The Wall Street Journal reports, "The Senate voted 78 to 12 to pass a broad, must-pass spending bill that includes $7.5 billion to start the loan program. The House passed the bill earlier in the week, and President George W. Bush is expected to sign it." =================== Bush signed the bill on Tuesday, September 30th. Right now, it appears to me that the big three are looking for more money.

11-07-2008, 12:32 PM	#25
D1BADZ hmmmmm Drives: 2010 IOM in-n-out 2SS Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: San Jose, Ca Posts: 1,325 View My Garage	Well our camaros are being built and we are paying sticker for the most part so, thats good, I just got a dealer ad in my inbox for 38,500 for a 1lt vette, there dropping prices on these like no other

11-07-2008, 12:59 PM	#27
CamaroFan1 Drives: Camaro Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 114	You know that the government is going to get a loan program in place for GM and Ford, just like the airline industries after 9/11. They are not going to allow them to go completely under due to the huge job losses that would happen, plus the loss in retiree benefits. I just bought a couple thousand shares of GM stock @ $4.05 this morning. The news about the company is bad now, but once a loan program is announced, the stock is going to go back up, at least temporarily.... I'll use the profit for Camaro mods!