Check your cats...

[Asylum]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

I have to disagree with your assessment, As a Tuner with 30 years experience and Last year Had an Advanced Training Class with Greg Bannish, that it is NOT always in the Tune, We covered this extensively in my Class.

If you put 10 lbs. of crap in a 5 lb. bag it is going to break.

The currently available cats can NOT handle the Exhaust Gasses from a supercharged 6.2 liter Engine

Put 10 Liters of Air through a 6 Liter Hole and it is going to over heat, melt and fail which if left unchecked will Fail a Piston in the engine.

Ted.

I have to disagree with you,
Last I checked I routinely overload my grocery bags, not all of them break.

[Asylum]

I think this discussion should be more.

"If running a supercharged application, it is 'wise' to remove the cats."

[Blacknight11]

Since I read the initial thread I have been researching and still confused. I have looked at Callaway site and they say nothing about this issue. The package listed below is with the stock exhaust I think. I can't see how a company like this would install a SC and leave oem pipes on if they knew it would cause an issue. Just trying to get a better understanding on issued before throwing money away.


Eaton Roots-style TVS2300 supercharger, with black powder-coated housing
Liquid-to-air intercooler, integral to intake manifold base (pat. pend.)
Increased flow rate fuel injectors
Callaway carbon fiber injector covers
Callaway high flow intake system
Callaway low restriction exhaust system
Callaway embroidered headrests
Callaway embroidered floor mats
Callaway anodized aluminum door sill panels
Callaway Camaro key fobs
Callaway badging, exterior and interior
Callaway Camaro authenticity documentation
Callaway 3 year/36,000 mile limited warranty

[TCAT]

I'm thinking companies like Callaway, SLP, etc that sell modified Camaros with Forced induction keep the stock cats on the vehicle so it passes even the toughest emissions standards regardless of the State it will be registered in (like Cailfornia for example).

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by TCAT

I'm thinking companies like Callaway, SLP, etc that sell modified Camaros with Forced induction keep the stock cats on the vehicle so it passes even the toughest emissions standards regardless of the State it will be registered in (like Cailfornia for example).

I think the performance vendors thought all these CAT's for the 2010+ Camaro's were a quality product, and up until recently (once peeps started complaining) will encourage maintaining stock CAT's if upgrading to an SC.
I've never heard anyone before say there were issues with aftermarket CATS and / or SC's until I found this thread very recently.
The curious thing is why none of the manufacturers are piping up here to either defend their position or communicate any changes in products.

For example: When I see something like this advertised, the last thing I'm thinking is "These CATS are not made for high-performance vehicles and will melt."

http://www.dynatechheaders.com/access_powercat.html

[grocerygetter]

So like the other guy asked...stock cats supercharged is fine if under 600?

[JANNETTYRACING]

It all comes down to Usage, if you have a supercharger on board that makes 30 lbs of boost but never push the gas pedal hard enough to make 1 lb of boost it will never be a Problem

If you have a supercharger that puts out 10 lbs of boost and you use it frequently there will be a Problem.

Again it can't be nailed down to a Horsepower number too many Variables.

If you never us all the power No problem.

If you use all the power all the time it will be a problem.

Ted.

[MarylandSpeed]

This thread is turning into a bunch of nonsense. After reading the thread, you would get the idea that pretty much everyone with a supercharger is certain to have their high flow cats fail. Also, you probabaly come away with the idea that Kooks cats are terrible, and the most likely to fail.

However if you read the thread, and count..only 4 people actually posted that their high flow cats failed on their actual Camaros. Of those four, one was Kooks, one was SLP, one was ARH, and one was undetermined. I did not go to the trouble to see who they were tuned by, but that could be relevent. That is after 3500 views in this thread. So while a lot of people might claim to know someone who had cats fail, or heard a story, this thread makes it pretty obvious it is the exception, not the rule and it can happen with any header set up. A trip to Camaro5fest, or any new Camaro show for that matter will tell you how many Supercharged Camaro's there are.

Here are some more thoughts-

1- Callaway, SLP, and so forth do not sell their cars with LT headers because you can't sell a car new without factory cats. It will not pass most states initial inspection since headers relocate the cats and are for off road use only. SLP offers a new 600+ HP supercharger package on their website that includes their LT's with cats.

2- Preemptivly gutting your cats is nonsense. I have never seen a customer of mine, nor have I seen posted where a failed cat caused a motor to fail. Can it happen?..yes..but for it to happen you would have to ignore some pretty HUGE driveability issues. Cats have failed since the product was introduced..plenty of people have had it happen over the last 30 years. However often when you have seen it happen to do you recall a cars motor being blown? The odds must be astronomical, and even then are part the owners fauilt for ignoring obvious warning signs. When you mod cars, you have to balance out these different things. Yeah..there is a 1 in a million chance your cat could fail..and that could lead to somehow you ignoring it and blowing your motor. But there are plenty of other things with a much greater chance of failing. I mean hell..the stock oil pump toasted my supercharged motor..anything can happen.

The bottom line however is, gutting cats you paid $400 for because you heard somewhere that someone had them fail, and there is a 1 in a million chance if you ignore the warning signs your motor could blow is non sense. While the risk of failure is higher on a supercharged car (like any part really) assuming you have a decent tune, you have a good chance of your cats never failing or giving you an issue. On the outside chance they do fail, you should have plenty of warning in terms of drivability issues...they have a warranty..just get them replaced.

As for people talking about putting the stock manifolds/cats on over this issue..that is even crazier. Take off parts you paid good money for that work fine, to end up losing 60+ HP because there is a chance a part might break. The odds of your superchager breaking something very expensive in the engine or drivertrain is much higher than cats failing and causing signifigant damage. I don't see people taking their superchargers off.

[Asylum]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

This thread is turning into a bunch of nonsense. After reading the thread, you would get the idea that pretty much everyone with a supercharger is certain to have their high flow cats fail. Also, you probabaly come away with the idea that Kooks cats are terrible, and the most likely to fail.

However if you read the thread, and count..only 4 people actually posted that their high flow cats failed. Of those four, one was Kooks, one was SLP, one was ARH, and one was undetermined. I did not go to the trouble to see who they were tuned by, but that could be relevent. That is after 3500 views in this thread. So while a lot of people might claim to know someone who had cats fail, or heard a story, this thread makes it pretty obvious it is the exception, not the rule..and it can happen with any header set up.

Here are some more thoughts-

1- Callaway, SLP, and so forth do not sell their cars with LT headers because you can't sell a car new without factory cats. It will not pass most states initial inspection since headers relocate the cats and are for off road use only. SLP offers a new 600+ HP supercharger package on their website that includes their LT's with cats.

2- Preemptivly gutting your cats is nonsense. I have never seen a customer of mine, nor have I seen posted where a failed cat caused a motor to fail. Can it happen?..yes..but for it to happen you would have to ignore some pretty HUGE driveability issues. Cats have failed since the product was introduced..plenty of people have had it happen over the last 30 years. However often when you have seen it happen to do you recall a cars motor being blown? The odds must be astronomical, and even then are part the owners fauilt for ignoring obvious warning signs. When you mod cars, you have to balance out these different things. Yeah..there is a 1 in a million chance your cat could fail..and that could lead to somehow you ignoring it and blowing your motor. But there are plenty of other things with a much greater chance of failing. I mean hell..the stock oil pump toasted my supercharged motor..anything can happen.

The bottom line however is, gutting cats you paid $400 for because you heard somewhere that someone had them fail, and there is a 1 in a million chance if you ignore the warning signs your motor could blow is non sense. While the risk of failure is higher on a supercharged car (like any part really) assuming you have a decent tune, you have a good chance of your cats never failing or giving you an issue. On the outside chance they do fail, you should have plenty of warning in terms of drivability issues...they have a warranty..just get them replaced.

As for people talking about putting the stock manifolds/cats on over this issue..that is even crazier. Take off parts you paid good money for that work fine, to end up losing 60+ HP because there is a chance a part might break. The odds of your superchager breaking something very expensive in the engine or drivertrain is much higher than cats failing and causing signifigant damage. I don't see people taking their superchargers off.

I love how you post with information, supporting evidence, and logic. To bad other Vendors like Janetty couldn't follow your lead.

The purpose of a forum is to educate people, not badger whos got a bigger prick... Write that down Ted.

I'm siding with Maryland,

[Big Daddy Kane]

Originally Posted by Asylum

I love how you post with information, supporting evidence, and logic. To bad other Vendors like Janetty couldn't follow your lead.

The purpose of a forum is to educate people, not badger whos got a bigger prick... Write that down Ted.

I'm siding with Maryland,

Whoa! This is starting to get ugly!!
I believe Ted is just saying high flow cats aren't junk, they're just not built to hold up to the abuse a supercharged motor can put out.

[MarylandSpeed]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Kane

Whoa! This is starting to get ugly!!
I believe Ted is just saying high flow cats aren't junk, they're just not built to hold up to the abuse a supercharged motor can put out.

It's not something I want to be vendor vs. vendor. I am just presenting another view and trying to get people to think more. The bottom line is, I want my customers to be happy, and I would not run cats on my own supercharged car, or recommend them to customers if I thought there was an abnormal chance of them failing. With a supercharged car, the chance of everything failing is higher no doubt. However I have enough of a customer base to know that threads like this make the issue seem way bigger than it is.

[BackinBlack]

Asylum, at what point did you think this thread was vendor vs vendor? You are declaring sides when there aren't any sides to be claimed. Just opinions; some of them experienced, some from their own observations, some from reading nothing more than this thread.

[Asylum]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

I have to disagree with your assessment, As a Tuner with 30 years experience and Last year Had an Advanced Training Class with Greg Bannish, that it is NOT always in the Tune, We covered this extensively in my Class.

If you put 10 lbs. of crap in a 5 lb. bag it is going to break.

The currently available cats can NOT handle the Exhaust Gasses from a supercharged 6.2 liter Engine

Put 10 Liters of Air through a 6 Liter Hole and it is going to over heat, melt and fail which if left unchecked will Fail a Piston in the engine.

Ted.

This was the tipping point for me..

May I ask someone to comb over this entire thread, find out who posted that HAS Melted cats, or an engine problem, and then provide the shop they received the work from?
I anticipate the response will rhyme with Serengeti. or Spaghetti, or Fast Eddie.. Or. well you get the point...

Originally Posted by Asylum

This was the tipping point for me..

May I ask someone to comb over this entire thread, find out who posted that HAS Melted cats, or an engine problem, and then provide the shop they received the work from?
I anticipate the response will rhyme with Serengeti. or Spaghetti, or Fast Eddie.. Or. well you get the point...

Also it's fun from time to time to be devil's advocate

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Asylum

Also it's fun from time to time to be devil's advocate

Not at the expense of any vendors on this site. Please take care not to single anyone out just for the sake of "playing devil's advocate"...Thank you.