[ZED SLED]

As long as we're dreaming, I want to bang Kate Beckinsale again. I mean, I wanted to bang her the first time I saw her, and now I want to bang her again.

[detamble13]

If GM's electrified future doesn't have a sports car people want to buy I could see the ICE Camaro living a while longer. Seeing that the majority of pony car sales aren't people chasing numbers I don't see why an electric version would be more compelling to own. Especially if the price isn't right.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by detamble13

If GM's electrified future doesn't have a sports car people want to buy I could see the ICE Camaro living a while longer. Seeing that the majority of pony car sales aren't people chasing numbers I don't see why an electric version would be more compelling to own. Especially if the price isn't right.

The issue with this scenario is Lansing Grand River. Currently builds Camaro, CT4, and CT5. GM will need to make a decision on what to do with LGR when CT4 and CT5 go BEV. This is expected to happen in accordance with Cadillac being 100% BEV by 2025. So Camaro’s fate will be set by then. Do not expect LGR to continue building anything ICE. It will more than likely be converted to a BEV plant. A Factory Zero. A BEV Camaro could very well be built there alongside BEV CT4 and CT5, but an ICE Camaro from that plant is super-not-likely. Moving Camaro to another plant is also not likely unless GM has interest in building it alongside Corvette.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by zaimer

Great thoughts, but I doubt it would ever happen. The same issues are still prevalent.

-the true sports/muscle car, passionate, customer market is the minority
-the Camaro is not AS practical as its competitors
-GM barely promotes Camaro sales, if at all
-GM continues to offer no incentives to move the Camaro inventory through the dealerships
-government & a fair part of society continue to push eco-options (a sour truth to large ICE)

- Maybe that customer market is smaller than before but the car hobby has a HUGE following still.
- Practicality is not a big box to check for weekend or toy cars. I quite frankly never understood why this mattered unless this is your only car. For most people though, we have other daily drivers that have cup holders and trunk space!
- Yes, GM is bad about promoting the Camaro.
- Nope, no real incentives for them either. I hope that changes when mine is ready this spring. Maybe actually get a little bit of a discount on it!

Yes, the EV push is here. I have no problem with them and find they can fit into peoples car arsenals. But, they are NOT ready to take over yet for so many reasons. I can see us adding a pure EV as a daily runabout or "go to work" car in the near future. But it cant be our only car and EVs cannot be our only vehicle type. No way.

[3.8TransAM]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

and in other breaking news,joe biden announces that the end of the war in afghanistan was an outstanding success...

I'm sure a lot of people are questioning their logic.

[JOHNSONROD]

GM doesnt knee jerk anything. if anything they are too slow to react. the end of the Camaro was set when they put Al on something else. if there was gonna be a 7th gen Camaro, they would be working on it. noone is working on that. as some of the guys have mentioned, they may throw a bone with a parts bin upgrade. heck, for all i know, they might offer left overs or DIY upgrade kits that they could make a buck on.
reading the OPs post, you can feel his want it to happen... but Jerry Reed never gave me a ride like in the red sovine songs, and the camaro is DONE! when you take the "L" out of Loverboy, its just overboy.

[Fak_Ork]

Originally Posted by JOHNSONROD

GM doesnt knee jerk anything.... and the camaro is DONE! when you take the "L" out of Loverboy, its just overboy.

The Camaro really does seem done but Cadillac all electric by 2025? I don't see how they can justify doing a huge redesign for the CT4 and CT5 but not bothering to release one last Camaro but, obviously, that's the plan!

Performance for dollar the CT4 and 5 cars are WAaAAAay behind Camaro. If the CT4V had eked out another 40 or 50 HP- even if it was bumped up a few K in price- I think that would be a great option.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by Fak_Ork

What if:

The current popularity doesn't abate but strengthens, sales significantly increase over 21 and prior years as pandemic-locked drivers rediscover the joy of something that can be done at a safe distance from others.

People start realizing how much fun sports cars with ICE's are- of which the Camaro SS- and other versions- are splendid, even glorious examples.

GM continues to electrify but also realizes that pure ICE has a 20-30+ year future as 50 percent all-electric penetration is about 15 years away in reality. Given this, GM recommits to a C7 Camaro which incrementally increases dynamics but addresses packaging limitations and prepares to release another bombshell that has BMW, Mercedes and Ford preparing for a real monster.

Stranger things have happened

The problem is, people are staring to realize how much fun EVs are, effortless acceleration, instant torque, etc. Lets face it, most people are concerned about power and acceleration on in straight lines. SUVs sell like crack. People don't care much about handling. They care about going fast in straight lines. And then there are the EVs that are good at handling too (with unmatched acceleration). ICE was doomed once viable EVs showed up on the market.

[Fak_Ork]

Viable SUV EV's? The market share of Battery Electric Vehicles in the U.S. hovers at around 1.8 percent (2020). They project 10 percent by 2025 which seems optimistic to me.

I don't disagree with anything you say about their performance but I'd guess more SUV buying people are concerned about quick charging, suitability of garage electric system for level 2 charging (if they have an available, clean garage spot) than straight-line dynamics.

I actually think BEV's make more sense for sporty cars for the dynamic reasons you mention than for family haulers, daily drivers, etc.

Electric is coming but people had better start buying them in quantity from places they usually get ICE vehicles and soon or some companies are going to really be hurting. Why would anyone be in a hurry to line up for GM's first sporty electric offering after the Bolt? Ford is on track with their electric F150 but GM seems to think the world is ragingly desirous of a lumpy battery equinox or Acadia.

[L78toLT1]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

If it helps you feel better about driving the snot out of it now, keep in mind that the current owner of the eventually new-to-you ZL1 is doing exactly that right now. And there’s nothing you can do about it.

No he's not, and that's a good thing from my perspective. Lots of low milage examples fo me to pick from once my SS starts to get tired! I'm at 30k now, but that's going to increase dramatically once I retire in a couple of months.
I honestly believe it's easier to find ZL1 with under 10k on the clock than a higher mileage example. I hope that trend continues!

[zaimer]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

- Maybe that customer market is smaller than before but the car hobby has a HUGE following still.
- Practicality is not a big box to check for weekend or toy cars. I quite frankly never understood why this mattered unless this is your only car. For most people though, we have other daily drivers that have cup holders and trunk space!
- Yes, GM is bad about promoting the Camaro.
- Nope, no real incentives for them either. I hope that changes when mine is ready this spring. Maybe actually get a little bit of a discount on it!

Yes, the EV push is here. I have no problem with them and find they can fit into peoples car arsenals. But, they are NOT ready to take over yet for so many reasons. I can see us adding a pure EV as a daily runabout or "go to work" car in the near future. But it cant be our only car and EVs cannot be our only vehicle type. No way.

I would argue the aspect of the daily driver. I believe the majority share of the Camaro market/sales does not consist of those that sit in the garage as the toy/fun car. Sure, many of us on here have the fun car and another vehicle or two which receive the grunt of the daily grind…but we’re not in the majority. The sales numbers speak for themselves.

Mustang outsells the Camaro- you’re telling me there are that many mustangs sitting pretty in their stables? I don’t think so.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Fak_Ork

Viable SUV EV's? What is the U.S. market share of Battery Electric vehicles? 2%?

I don't disagree with anything you say about their performance but I'd guess more SUV buying people are concerned about quick charging, suitability of garage electric system for level 2 charging (if they have an available, clean garage spot) than straight-line dynamics.

I actually think BEV's make more sense for sporty cars for the dynamic reasons you mention than for family haulers, daily drivers, etc.

Electric is coming but people had better start buying them in quantity from places they usually get ICE vehicles and soon or some companies are going to really be hurting. Why would anyone be in a hurry to line up for GM's first sporty electric offering after the Bolt? Ford is on track with their electric F150 but GM seems to think the world is ragingly desirous of a lumpy battery equinox or Acadia.

The most expensive part of an EV is the battery. For early EVs, battery costs were running more than $200/kWh. So there were two logical approaches to BEVs. Either make them small relatively lightweight vehicles that didn’t need a ton of batteries (literally) to get decent range. That’s your Nissan Leaf. Or, throw a crapload of batteries at it to get great range and make it as luxurious as you can and charge up the arse for it. That’s your Tesla. Since you already have a crapload of batteries in it, may as well show people how ridiculously it can accelerate and downplay the fact that you could only do it once or twice on a charge. Because there aren’t a whole lot of people looking for cheap EVs with marginal range (Leaf) and not many people have and are willing to spend the kinda cheddar a Tesla draws, the percentage of BEVs sold hangs around 2%. Companies selling them (except Tesla) are more interested in the EPA credits they generate than they are with profit, because at $200/kWh, there is no profit. So they hope to sell maybe one more than they need to sell to max out the EPA credits they need to protect their ICE portfolio.

All the while, technology progresses and battery prices drop. Some estimates have GM’s cost per kWh at around $100 and dropping. They have also become more efficient with how much range they can get out of each kWh. So now GM is planning on adding SUVs (Hummer, Lyriq) and pickup trucks (Hummer, Silverado) that have 300+ mile range and “reasonable” pricing.

By 2030, the company I work for projects BEV to be around 20+% of vehicles sold in the US. Because instead of just having small, marginal range vehicles and super pricey sedans and crossovers, customers will have BEVs to choose from that better suit their needs and budgets.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by JOHNSONROD

GM doesnt knee jerk anything. if anything they are too slow to react. the end of the Camaro was set when they put Al on something else. if there was gonna be a 7th gen Camaro, they would be working on it. noone is working on that. as some of the guys have mentioned, they may throw a bone with a parts bin upgrade. heck, for all i know, they might offer left overs or DIY upgrade kits that they could make a buck on.
reading the OPs post, you can feel his want it to happen... but Jerry Reed never gave me a ride like in the red sovine songs, and the camaro is DONE! when you take the "L" out of Loverboy, its just overboy.

I see it the other way. GM did knee jerk like they suddenly realized they were on the wrong track.

GM abruptly fired the CEO of Cadillac, Johan de Nysschen, after moving the offices to NY and investing heavily in a completely revamped line of coupes and sedans. Then a few months later the moved Al Oppenheiser out of the Camaro team to BEV.

They did a 180 degree spin in 2018 and dumped everything they had going from an R&D and product planning standpoint

[JOHNSONROD]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I see it the other way. GM did knee jerk like they suddenly realized they were on the wrong track.

GM abruptly fired the CEO of Cadillac, Johan de Nysschen, after moving the offices to NY and investing heavily in a completely revamped line of coupes and sedans. Then a few months later the moved Al Oppenheiser out of the Camaro team to BEV.

They did a 180 degree spin in 2018 and dumped everything they had going from an R&D and product planning standpoint

well im just going on what i see and hear brother, just like you im sure. ive heard the Camaro is done. i havent got any connections to the caddy program since Andy stopped driving for them. in 2016 we were doing research for what turned into the mid engine corvette. i hear stuff sometimes 6 or 8 years before it happens, and im not an "in the know GM exec" i was just an adjacent to GM track flunky lol. i think the camaro is done and maybe im right and maybe they will knee jerk it back into existence. admittedly i know very little about the Caddy program, but how would they have gradually fired the Caddy guy LOL. just messin with ya man.