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Old 03-13-2011, 10:32 PM   #71
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What we have here is a failure to communicate...

we need to check with some of the more reputable and well known builders and have a few of them offer up some really good info on cam selection, without giving up proprietary info,, and make a sticky in the forced induction page....we have one for catch cans, and other items... ...

I learned most of what I know from Corey, my builder, and please forgive me if I got any of it wrong...
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:34 PM   #72
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My cam is more oriented to a N/A setup, but I wanted more so I threw on the D1. After the tuning, and making well over 600rwhp. I left things alone. Can I make more power with a "blower" cam? Sure. My current cam makes power up high, and so does the D1.
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:35 PM   #73
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Here's the best way to think about this....

Your engine is an air pump....GM did the best job they could to make good power and keep emissions in check.

Of course, the supplied power level isn't good enough...so what do we do? Add CAI and cams. Help get more air in the engine, which in turn makes more power.
But now for that air pump to work at max output, you now have a restriction in the exhaust. What do we do? Slap headers on....now the air can get out as fast as it gets in!

Great for NA, not so much for boost....the OEM backpressure helps make that 9 PSI of boost. Once the air pump becomes more efficient by adding headers, now you're losing boost pressure in the combustion chamber. What do we do then? Slap a pully on the blower to make more boost!

Bottom line? WE'RE ALL NUTS!
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:38 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS View Post
About a year ago, Someone did a good write up, not specifically about this, but this was included...wish I could remember who, might have been Ted...
Might have been Spike.

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Originally Posted by Dangeruss View Post
Hey Randy...it may not have as much lope as mlee's, but I'm pretty happy with my mild VVT cam.
That actually sounds perfect.

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Originally Posted by Supercharged SS View Post
What he said. Cam + headers = less boost but more power. Take that out of your equation and blam, there's your 9 lbs.
So if I'm at 7.3 pounds of boost now, and I put a cam in it should drop less because of my smaller headers, then I can drop a pulley size and get it back. But If I lose less boost that's good right?

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Headers and the cam are the biggest factors in it....a good tuner/ builder is not going to let you put the wrong cam in it PQ!
Well, this is another part of this thread. To find out if I want to install it myself.
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:39 PM   #75
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What he said. Cam + headers = less boost but more power. Take that out of your equation and blam, there's your 9 lbs.
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Headers and the cam are the biggest factors in it....a good tuner/ builder is not going to let you put the wrong cam in it PQ!
Now we're learning... Answer me this... If the LSA is correct, and the duration is limited, and both valves are not open at the same time, why would it cost you boost?

Maybe it's not possible for them to both be closed at the same time, during the exhaust/intake overlap...

If it is possible, and this occurs, where is the boost going... Is it due to the scavenge effect of the headers... Thus the larger tubes being better due to less effect secondary to a larger area and thus slower velocities... Or am I thinking wrong here...
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:40 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggerorange73 View Post
Bottom line? WE'RE ALL NUTS!
I'm with you on that. This may sound dumb, but I honesty wanted the cam for the lope!
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:40 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggerorange73 View Post
Here's the best way to think about this....

WE'RE ALL NUTS!
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:42 PM   #78
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Quote:
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I'm with you on that. This may sound dumb, but I honesty wanted the cam for the lope!
We all love the "LOPE"
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:43 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS View Post
Now we're learning... Answer me this... If the LSA is correct, and the duration is limited, and both valves are not open at the same time, why would it cost you boost?

Maybe it's not possible for them to both be closed at the same time, during the exhaust/intake overlap...

If it is possible, and this occurs, where is the boost going... Is it due to the scavenge effect of the headers... Thus the larger tubes being better due to less effect secondary to a larger area and thus slower velocities... Or am I thinking wrong here...

Small LSA/duration cams don't hurt you, they work in harmony with the blower's boost.

You're losing boost through the headers.....so you're thinking correctly.
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:47 PM   #80
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Just for giggles....this a clip of my NA car with a .571/.590 228/240 on a 113 LSA.

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Old 03-13-2011, 10:50 PM   #81
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Quote:
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Bottom line? WE'RE ALL NUTS!




Now...... Let me continue my psycosis....... So, wouldn't my smaller primaries be more effective becasue I lose much less boost? I mean up to a certain power anyway. And not anything I will be going for. Not over 600 rwhp.

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Now we're learning... Answer me this... If the LSA is correct, and the duration is limited, and both valves are not open at the same time, why would it cost you boost?

Maybe it's not possible for them to both be closed at the same time, during the exhaust/intake overlap...

If it is possible, and this occurs, where is the boost going... Is it due to the scavenge effect of the headers... Thus the larger tubes being better due to less effect secondary to a larger area and thus slower velocities... Or am I thinking wrong here...
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:52 PM   #82
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Ok. I get the 'lsa'

But WTF do these mean?

I've seen them, but never really knew.

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.571/.590 228/240
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:58 PM   #83
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.571 = Intake valve lift
.590 = Exhaust valve lift
228 = Intake duration
240 = exhaust duration
113 Lobe separation angle

LS3 heads flow insanely well on the intake side, so I chose a cam that would help get the "weaker" exhaust side to get the gasses out as fast as they were coming in.
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:04 PM   #84
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I understand one, I found an article, and went and read it...too much to post here, and I'm on my iPad, so it's hard to copy and paste, but I'll do so tomorrow when/if I make it put to the rig... Weather is sketchy...

there are tremendous amounts of variables, exhaust back pressure, cylinder fill efficiency, overlap, duration etc....

In a nut shell, as was just mentioned, it is an air pump, so, let it breath,,,

Good flowing exhaust, proper LSA, narrow in the boosted application, limit the duration, and wala, amazing power....

the exhaust can cause back pressure, which you want some, but if it reaches say 10 lbs of resistance, and you are pushing 7 lbs, and there is some overlap, both valves open at the same time, then the air will go to the point of least resistance... In this case the intake side,,,, with exhaust gases... If this is a 30 degree overlap in a 280 degree duration cam, then you end up with roughly a 85 percent efficiency in cylinder filling with fresh air...

The same can be said for velocities... Exhaust valves are smaller, and therefore the same volume, or actually more volume has to flow through a smaller are! So velocities are much higher... Leading to back pressure in a restrictive exhaust system...
If you free flow the exhaust, and limit the overlap via either duration and/or LSA, then you can achieve higher cylinder filling efficiencies with fresh air... And create more power.

Wow, now my head hurts...
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Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall.
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“If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.” Mario Andretti

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