World of Warcraf pvp'ers should check this out.

[Mindz]

Correct. I meant 12 million subscriptions

[ljustin293]

hmmm...the title of this thread confuses me

[Hemlawk]

Originally Posted by Mindz

Correct. I meant 12 million subscriptions

Mindz, no WoW when you start college!

[Mindz]

I'm past college. I work full time

[Hemlawk]

haha, ok, my bad buddy

WoW = bad grades (most of the time)

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by kevin2323

ohhhh my bad thought u were complaining, it was the pallies fault for trying to save his bubble .....cost them the match....and to those saying WOW isnt a great mmo there are 9 million people paying 15 bucks a month that say otherwise.

Yeah, and 19 million people get STDs every year. Does that mean its a good thing to do?

Numbers != intelligence.
- Xanthos

[Danno]

Originally Posted by XanthosV6

Yeah, and 19 million people get STDs every year. Does that mean its a good thing to do?

Numbers != intelligence.
- Xanthos

And less accessible, harder content doesn't = intelligence either. Only thing worse than a car elitist is an MMO elitist.

I've played just about every MMO there is, and I tell you what. If you want hardcore PVP, then fine, DAOC or GW. Want a better market model? Then sure, Eve has a more full model. Does that make it better? No. Just different.

I've been playing computer games since B-1 Bomber on a 1983 atari-800 and I've never been able to get my wife to play any games with me. She liked the look of WoW, tried it, and was easily able to get the hang of the very friendly system (again, inaccessible, obscure UI's that make you read a book doesn't make it better just because it's harder).

Now, 4 years later, my game-hating wife has a lvl 80 Troll fire mage that raids Ulduar every week with our guild. WoW brought my wife in to my hobbies. Now you go ahead and tell me how that's a bad thing that new, casual gamers are now coming in to our hobby and swelling the industry.

If you don't like my wife and I's choice of game, that's fine. That's why it's a choice. I'm just not sure where you get off questioning a man's intelligence over it.

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by Danno

And less accessible, harder content doesn't = intelligence either. Only thing worse than a car elitist is an MMO elitist.

I've played just about every MMO there is, and I tell you what. If you want hardcore PVP, then fine, DAOC or GW. Want a better market model? Then sure, Eve has a more full model. Does that make it better? No. Just different.

I've been playing computer games since B-1 Bomber on a 1983 atari-800 and I've never been able to get my wife to play any games with me. She liked the look of WoW, tried it, and was easily able to get the hang of the very friendly system (again, inaccessible, obscure UI's that make you read a book doesn't make it better just because it's harder).

Now, 4 years later, my game-hating wife has a lvl 80 Troll fire mage that raids Ulduar every week with our guild. WoW brought my wife in to my hobbies. Now you go ahead and tell me how that's a bad thing that new, casual gamers are now coming in to our hobby and swelling the industry.

If you don't like my wife and I's choice of game, that's fine. That's why it's a choice. I'm just not sure where you get off questioning a man's intelligence over it.

I was in no way trying to question your intelligence. I was merely saying that just because millions of people play it does not mean its a good game.

And if you honestly think that WoW has a simpler UI/Game System than GW, you've never played both. I have played both, and I hate WoW. It holds absolutely no entertainment value. As you say, its a choice and an opinion.

Of course, there are 5 million+ people playing guild wars, so by the same token they must be doing something right too.
- Xanthos

[Hemlawk]

Danno, its cool that you and your wife found a game to play together. I might consider playing wow if my wife liked it too(she doesn't like video games).
But as an MMO veteran, that just proves to me that WoW isn't what I want in a game. Especially when house wives(no offense), little kids and non-gamer folk can play and rank up so easily.
I want death and mayhem.

To each his own

[Danno]

Originally Posted by XanthosV6

I was in no way trying to question your intelligence. I was merely saying that just because millions of people play it does not mean its a good game.

And if you honestly think that WoW has a simpler UI/Game System than GW, you've never played both. I have played both, and I hate WoW. It holds absolutely no entertainment value. As you say, its a choice and an opinion.

Of course, there are 5 million+ people playing guild wars, so by the same token they must be doing something right too.
- Xanthos

Sorry, my apologies for getting my hackles up so quickly. Actually, I have played guild wars, back in the early beta days. My guild (community, may be a better word...we've been together for like 9 years now) has a very very strong branch in GW. They were actually the very first GW guild of the week. However, regarding obscure UI's, I wasn't necessarily referring to GW, but several others out there. The original Everquest springs to mind as a prime example, as does shadowbane and whatever that dog of a game I beta'd for Sony was..Vanguard? THAT was a stinker.

I like GW just fine. As a tactical pvp game I think it is without peer, and the pricing model is of course, excellent. And maybe things have changed, but at least when I looked at it, a rich, persistent world with a plethora of different things to do and places to see, it was not.

Originally Posted by Hemlawk

Danno, its cool that you and your wife found a game to play together. I might consider playing wow if my wife liked it too(she doesn't like video games).
But as an MMO veteran, that just proves to me that WoW isn't what I want in a game. Especially when house wives(no offense), little kids and non-gamer folk can play and rank up so easily.
I want death and mayhem.

To each his own

Ya, I agree that WoW is definitely lighter hearted than most MMO's short of "Fly for fun" (THAT takes the cake for lighthearted. However, I'd caution you on painting the end game with such a broad stroke. Some of the raid instances are definitely almost ridiculous now in the complexity and coordination it takes to pull off success.

And my house wife is now a serious gamer . Which is way cool.

[Mindz]

Unfortunately, Endgame for WoW is no where near as complex and difficult as it used to be. Back when Clearing MC took 40 people 8+ hours to clear, you got a HUGE sense of accomplishment. Nowadays, my current guild clears Ulduar with 4+ hardmodes in 2 nights of 2.5 hour raiding...Naxx was so sijmple and easy it wasn't even a joke. People were pugging that day 5 of the new expansion (that includes levelling up time).

People are now pugging ulduar up to council/kologarn on my server and we're not up there with the top progressionwise either.

[kevin2323]

Originally Posted by Mindz

Unfortunately, Endgame for WoW is no where near as complex and difficult as it used to be. Back when Clearing MC took 40 people 8+ hours to clear, you got a HUGE sense of accomplishment. Nowadays, my current guild clears Ulduar with 4+ hardmodes in 2 nights of 2.5 hour raiding...Naxx was so sijmple and easy it wasn't even a joke. People were pugging that day 5 of the new expansion (that includes levelling up time).

People are now pugging ulduar up to council/kologarn on my server and we're not up there with the top progressionwise either.

yep the people complaining about wow not being hard /entertaining definately didnt play WoW from the start.....

[Mindz]

I miss the good old days. But UO has just gone down the toilet startign with ML.

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by Danno

Sorry, my apologies for getting my hackles up so quickly. Actually, I have played guild wars, back in the early beta days. My guild (community, may be a better word...we've been together for like 9 years now) has a very very strong branch in GW. They were actually the very first GW guild of the week. However, regarding obscure UI's, I wasn't necessarily referring to GW, but several others out there. The original Everquest springs to mind as a prime example, as does shadowbane and whatever that dog of a game I beta'd for Sony was..Vanguard? THAT was a stinker.

I like GW just fine. As a tactical pvp game I think it is without peer, and the pricing model is of course, excellent. And maybe things have changed, but at least when I looked at it, a rich, persistent world with a plethora of different things to do and places to see, it was not.

Its gotten better over time. In fact, I don't PvP at all and I still find lots of different places to explore and things to do. However, I will admit that it is lacking on the PvE side - GW2 is supposed to be expanding on that.

As for Everquest - hated that one too. Didn't like SWG either. Tabula Rasa was fun, but a bit buggy and the story line wasn't laid out well. Auto Assault was the F**ing S***, but apparently not many people agreed with me. It was axed not long after it was released. CoH was great when it came out but its gone downhill and I don't play anymore. Champions Online had promise but, at least in beta phases, can't deliver. Right now I'm waiting on GW2 and TOR, not to mention *cough* diablo 3 *cough*.
- Xanthos