Calling Shorty Header Owners

[Inferno2SS]

Originally Posted by ssmike

I have DT shorties but never got it dyno'd, don't really care to at this point. I can tell you that there was a noticable difference in low/mid range torque just by seat of pants feel! On top of that I think they really look great! Open the hood and people can see you have headers, I get good comments from everyone! I too was only worried about warranty and not emissions. You'll probably pay mid $500's for shorties and only a little more for lower end long tubes but the question remains....to tune or not to tune!

Thanks ssmike that is good feed back. Low/mid range torque is really what I am most interested in anyway. I think I will go for it, a little extra low/mid range torque, better sound and looks makes it worth it for $500. I really dont wanna tune and toss away a 5 year warranty.

[HeavyD]

I think it is possible to get maybe 15 hp out of shorties, but you need a CAI and a cat back system too. You can't just open up one piece of the chain. I would think about 20-30 hp with aftermarket CAI + shorties + cat back system. The hp gain is just part of it. The sound improvement makes it worth it too!

[barrylnv]

Originally Posted by HeavyD

I think it is possible to get maybe 15 hp out of shorties, but you need a CAI and a cat back system too. You can't just open up one piece of the chain. I would think about 20-30 hp with aftermarket CAI + shorties + cat back system. The hp gain is just part of it. The sound improvement makes it worth it too!

What he said, but not as much as 30 if you keep all variables the same. I installed DT shorties, Hennessey CAI, and Borla S-type cat-back. Prior to install, filled it up with 93 octane (we only have 91 readily available out here), did baseline pulls, got about 360 RWHP corrected. It was eddy-current type dyno, not DynoJet, hence the lower numbers. Installed shorties, CAI, cat-back and drove for about 300 miles on 93 octane, did battery pull, and re-dyno'd. Got 378 RWHP. Did 4 pulls, all were within 2-3 HP, 378 was the average.

In talking with several builders and doing lots of reading, seems you can realistically expect 8-10 HP with shorties, 5-8 HP with CAI, and 0-4 HP with cat-back (if that, usually nothing). You can also gain 10-12 with just a tune and changing no bolt-ons. My thoughts are that the 18-22 that manufacturers claim with shorties are about an equal split between the shorties themselves and a tune. They just don't tell you about the tune. Or, and I've seen this before, they mess with correction factors, smoothing, etc. and you can always sway things quite a bit that way.

Long story short, I've talked to a lot of people about this since I was greatly curious when buying my shorties back 7 months ago, but there is no way you're getting 18+ RWHP with just shorties and nothing else. With CAI, possibly. With tune, possible. With both, yeah, but probably no more than 22 or so total. You can't just add all the numbers. Doesn't work that way.

[SA CHEVY]

Originally Posted by barrylnv

What he said, but not as much as 30 if you keep all variables the same. I installed DT shorties, Hennessey CAI, and Borla S-type cat-back. Prior to install, filled it up with 93 octane (we only have 91 readily available out here), did baseline pulls, got about 360 RWHP corrected. It was eddy-current type dyno, not DynoJet, hence the lower numbers. Installed shorties, CAI, cat-back and drove for about 300 miles on 93 octane, did battery pull, and re-dyno'd. Got 378 RWHP. Did 4 pulls, all were within 2-3 HP, 378 was the average.

In talking with several builders and doing lots of reading, seems you can realistically expect 8-10 HP with shorties, 5-8 HP with CAI, and 0-4 HP with cat-back (if that, usually nothing). You can also gain 10-12 with just a tune and changing no bolt-ons. My thoughts are that the 18-22 that manufacturers claim with shorties are about an equal split between the shorties themselves and a tune. They just don't tell you about the tune. Or, and I've seen this before, they mess with correction factors, smoothing, etc. and you can always sway things quite a bit that way.

Long story short, I've talked to a lot of people about this since I was greatly curious when buying my shorties back 7 months ago, but there is no way you're getting 18+ RWHP with just shorties and nothing else. With CAI, possibly. With tune, possible. With both, yeah, but probably no more than 22 or so total. You can't just add all the numbers. Doesn't work that way.

At least we can get some real world feedback now. So money wise...shorties...worth the pennys or save your money for something else??

[barrylnv]

Originally Posted by SA CHEVY

At least we can get some real world feedback now. So money wise...shorties...worth the pennys or save your money for something else??

IMO it depends on what you want to do. The DT shorties are beautiful for show and they do give a bit of power, just not what they claim. Notice nobody except Borla stepped up to Ted's open call for shorty shoot-out. As good as that was of Borla, their claims on their cat-back are outlandish. I've seen no better than 3-4 RWHP with any of the 2.5" cat-back tests on here and the builders I've talked to have confirmed the same. Borla said something like 20 with the 140280 that I have.

For show, DT shorties are best bang for buck. They are ceramic coated and really look great. For performance, go with good longtubes and HF cats. ARH has proven great performance for longtubes. If staying naturally aspirated - longtubes/HF cats, CAI, cam, and tune give best bang for the buck. Porting heads, bigger throttle bodies, stroking, etc. if you're going crazy. If going supercharged, be wary of freeing up exhaust too much or you blow out the boost and have to drop pulley sizes and at some point get belt slippage.

So just depends. Show - DT shorties. Performance - longtubes/HF cats if NA, either stock/shorties with high boost or longtubes/HF cats with lower boost if SC.

[SA CHEVY]

Originally Posted by barrylnv

IMO it depends on what you want to do. The DT shorties are beautiful for show and they do give a bit of power, just not what they claim. Notice nobody except Borla stepped up to Ted's open call for shorty shoot-out. As good as that was of Borla, their claims on their cat-back are outlandish. I've seen no better than 3-4 RWHP with any of the 2.5" cat-back tests on here and the builders I've talked to have confirmed the same. Borla said something like 20 with the 140280 that I have.

For show, DT shorties are best bang for buck. They are ceramic coated and really look great. For performance, go with good longtubes and HF cats. ARH has proven great performance for longtubes. If staying naturally aspirated - longtubes/HF cats, CAI, cam, and tune give best bang for the buck. Porting heads, bigger throttle bodies, stroking, etc. if you're going crazy. If going supercharged, be wary of freeing up exhaust too much or you blow out the boost and have to drop pulley sizes and at some point get belt slippage.

So just depends. Show - DT shorties. Performance - longtubes/HF cats if NA, either stock/shorties with high boost or longtubes/HF cats with lower boost if SC.

I think that info pretty much closes it. I believe he wanted some power gains and even I was under the impression given the dyno sheets that shorties actually did step up on these Gen 5's to at least 15+ HP but this proves it wrong! I don't know about fellow Camaro5 family but I'm in it for the performance so LT's it is for me...thanks for the good feedback Barry...I hope other get a glimpse of this thread before decidingwhich is right for them...

[Inferno2SS]

Thanks barryInv, that is some good info and definitely food for thought.

[barrylnv]

No prob guys, I don't mean to sound like a professor, I'm far from it, but I did get schooled when I was VERY disappointed in my gains last fall . Just trying to help my gen5 brethren (and sisters!) with what I've learned. If he's going for performance, it is more money but much better bang for the buck down the road to go with longtubes/HF cats.

[Inferno2SS]

Im just glad to hear some realistic feedback, good or bad Id rather have all the info. Now I just need to decide if I want to try and be happy with the 15-20 HP I would get from a CAI and Shorties or just say F it and go with LT Headers, CAI and a tune. Its a tough call when youve only had your car for 2 weeks and you know you would be losing 4 plus years of warranty.

[HeavyD]

I want to keep my warranty, and stay smog legal. I'm not looking for 50+hp. I would be happy with 20 hp from CAI, shorties and a catback system. I am more interested in getting better sound. This car is awesome right from the assembly line! I have my Roto Fab and a MBRP set ready to go. Just waiting on my shorties. I am also getting it dynoed before and after. Hopefully this will happen withing the 2 or 3 weeks.

[Inferno2SS]

Originally Posted by HeavyD

I want to keep my warranty, and stay smog legal. I'm not looking for 50+hp. I would be happy with 20 hp from CAI, shorties and a catback system. I am more interested in getting better sound. This car is awesome right from the assembly line! I have my Roto Fab and a MBRP set ready to go. Just waiting on my shorties. I am also getting it dynoed before and after. Hopefully this will happen withing the 2 or 3 weeks.

Let us know how it turns out. You can be the guinea pig for all guys who want to keep our warranties.

Just kidding. I decided to go for shorties as well. I am going to add a C.A.I. intake along with JBA shorties and catted mid pipes towards the end of next month. I will post my before and after dyno numbers as well.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by barrylnv

No prob guys, I don't mean to sound like a professor, I'm far from it, but I did get schooled when I was VERY disappointed in my gains last fall . Just trying to help my gen5 brethren (and sisters!) with what I've learned. If he's going for performance, it is more money but much better bang for the buck down the road to go with longtubes/HF cats.

Thanks for your input. It sounds like the tune is going to be the key. True - you get into the computer, you're probably out of warranty, but just like with LTs, if you want to optimize shorties, you're going to have to retune. It's probably not going to be much of a gain, but I imagine one wouldn't add shorties if they weren't trying to eek as much power, legally, as possible.

The law is made to be black and white. Just because you don't move cats's, doesn't make it exempt. Go to a smog ref' in CA, and you'll get a rude awakening. If you get a smog tech' who is following the LAW, it will matter. Nowhere is as bad as here, and I bet 95% of you, outside CA don't have anything, at all, to worry about, but don't mense words. Shorties are not 50-State smog-legal WITHOUT AN EXEMTION NUMBER; NOTHING IS. It doesn't matter, mechanically, that nothing else it altered. It's up to the individual though.

[Jason 98 TA]

we're installing BBK's today & will post results asap!!

[Jason 98 TA]

Pull 1 Baseline
Pull 3 After Shorty Headers