The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[Fogey]

As someone who almost jumped off the Camaro train in favor of a 5.0 Mustang (vehicle weight and visibility were main issues), (may god have mercy on my soul) I did some hard core research online and nagging visits to local Ford dealers. To my chagrin, there was a major deal breaker. The Mustang auto is an old fashioned, (IMHO) slush box. You put it drive and hit the gas. What fun is that. As one who has driven an Audi for 11 years with a Tiptronic, and a Formula 1 fan where all the cars are select shift WTF is Ford doing with a 1950 tranny in their premeir, (not including the Shelby), vehicle.
I'm back to a Camaro and will not stray again.

[Revo1]

Smaller displacement engines have a higher tolerance for RPM... Makes for a more versatile power arc

[firengnred]

Because Ford basically already "modded" the motor squeezing it out leaving not alot of room for after market mods. The 6.2 is a gift just begging to be modded to blow the doors off that 5.0. The 6.2 in other words has FAR MORE potential than their 5.0. The 6.2 has the potential to make more torque and horse power at more user friendly RPM and in a broader range. Don't be sold on peak numbers.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by Fogey

As someone who almost jumped off the Camaro train in favor of a 5.0 Mustang (vehicle weight and visibility were main issues), (may god have mercy on my soul) I did some hard core research online and nagging visits to local Ford dealers. To my chagrin, there was a major deal breaker. The Mustang auto is an old fashioned, (IMHO) slush box. You put it drive and hit the gas. What fun is that. As one who has driven an Audi for 11 years with a Tiptronic, and a Formula 1 fan where all the cars are select shift WTF is Ford doing with a 1950 tranny in their premeir, (not including the Shelby), vehicle.
I'm back to a Camaro and will not stray again.

The Automatic that Ford is using in the 2011 Mustang is newer design than the tranny in the Camaro. The 6 speed auto transmission can be setup to be paddle shifted and I honestly don't know why Ford didn't offer it for the Mustang.

[Fogey]

"Ford doen't expect that 5.0 enthusiasts will want an automatic transmission, and thus doesn't ofeer any paddle shifters or whatever". I ask him if he thought Formula 1 drivers were longing for the day of the manual? We then parted.

[Fogey]

I should not have called the Ford tranny a slush box. It was a comment that came from frustration as I have learned to love Tiptronics et.al.

[thebrander]

I'm not sure why people get so caught up on "HP/Liter". I might be missing something but it seems that the real performance measure of an engine should be "HP/weight". The new 5.0 engine is tuned to 414HP and weighs 430 lbs yielding a ratio of 0.963HP/lb. The Camaro LS3 is tuned to 426HP and weighs 415lbs yielding a ratio of 1.027HP/lb. That makes the Camaro LS3 about 7% more powerful per pound. When you throw in the simplicity of the pushrod design, the (430/390-1)*100% = 10% more torque, and the higher "moddability" of the LS3, it seems that the GM engine is simply a better performer (it's a Corvette engine, what do you expect? ).

I believe both cars will be very close performance-wise (never pay attention to magazine articles) and either owner could mod their car to beat the other. It just comes down to which car/brand is your preference. I'm just glad they're both American.

[bwnunnally]

I wonder since Ford made headers standard on the 5L V8 if one should compare the LS3 with headers to the 5L with headers for an apples to apples hp comparison of the engines?

Once the fuel is burned, it's just as important to get the exhaust gases out of the engine as it is to get air in. With this in mind, the 5.0 has tubular stainless steel exhaust headers. The design of the headers features two secondary tubes that flow into two primary tubes, which then flow into a common collector. The tube lengths are tuned to ensure that there are no exhaust pulses pushing gases back into adjacent cylinders. Engineer Adam Christian developed the headers using a CFD program, but when the design was sent out to a local prototype shop for fabrication, the parts performed poorly on the dyno. After seeing the results, Christian requisitioned some tubing, took it home and fabricated a set of headers using his own tools. These performed perfectly on the engine and were used to correlate the model. The production units are being supplied to Ford by Benteler Automotive.

[Den4176]

Originally Posted by thebrander

I'm not sure why people get so caught up on "HP/Liter". I might be missing something but it seems that the real performance measure of an engine should be "HP/weight". The new 5.0 engine is tuned to 414HP and weighs 430 lbs yielding a ratio of 0.963HP/lb. The Camaro LS3 is tuned to 426HP and weighs 415lbs yielding a ratio of 1.027HP/lb. That makes the Camaro LS3 about 7% more powerful per pound. When you throw in the simplicity of the pushrod design, the (430/390-1)*100% = 10% more torque, and the higher "moddability" of the LS3, it seems that the GM engine is simply a better performer (it's a Corvette engine, what do you expect? ).

I believe both cars will be very close performance-wise (never pay attention to magazine articles) and either owner could mod their car to beat the other. It just comes down to which car/brand is your preference. I'm just glad they're both American.

+2 well said..

[Sax1031]

Hp/weight is only really good when talking about the complete car. Breaking these arguments down to hp/liter or hp/weight of an engine is ricer math.

[Unfair]

Originally Posted by bwnunnally

I wonder since Ford made headers standard on the 5L V8 if one should compare the LS3 with headers to the 5L with headers for an apples to apples hp comparison of the engines?

That's modded vs stock from the factory, no point.

[bigd1276]

Originally Posted by thebrander

I'm not sure why people get so caught up on "HP/Liter". I might be missing something but it seems that the real performance measure of an engine should be "HP/weight". The new 5.0 engine is tuned to 414HP and weighs 430 lbs yielding a ratio of 0.963HP/lb. The Camaro LS3 is tuned to 426HP and weighs 415lbs yielding a ratio of 1.027HP/lb. That makes the Camaro LS3 about 7% more powerful per pound. When you throw in the simplicity of the pushrod design, the (430/390-1)*100% = 10% more torque, and the higher "moddability" of the LS3, it seems that the GM engine is simply a better performer (it's a Corvette engine, what do you expect? ).

I believe both cars will be very close performance-wise (never pay attention to magazine articles) and either owner could mod their car to beat the other. It just comes down to which car/brand is your preference. I'm just glad they're both American.

Amen! Both great cars, both American.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by will69camaro

Underrating a blower car is a little different. Trying to remember all the cars Ford produced that had a lot of "hype" and ended up eating crow.

99 Cobra
RX8 come to mind immediately

I will have to think on the others.

I DO hope they pull it off. Be nice to have some competition for a similar price range (GT500 little too pricey for avg SS buyers). Want to see the benefits of a competitive market!

There have probably been more complaints of underpowered L99's than there were 99 Cobra's.

The 99 Cobra was the only car they delivered that did not meet the advertised specs. Since then, nearly ALL v8 mustangs have been underrated, some more than others.

[thebrander]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

Hp/weight is only really good when talking about the complete car. Breaking these arguments down to hp/liter or hp/weight of an engine is ricer math.

Hey I'm just suggesting a better performance index for those who try to use HP/Liter to compare engines. It boggles my mind why those people don't also talk about HP/weight or praise the simplicity of an engine that does the same thing (or better) with a more complex engine. The Ricers and European car guys get really caught up on this.