WOW just seen new Caddy, 556hp, will the Z28 get that?

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

Oh.
so I'm not resonable enough?

actually the and then reasonable heads step in was meant as you are the only one that has been reasonable. . .lol.

Originally Posted by lawdog

That would be stupid, people are going to opt for the cts V for that kind of money so you get luxery and speed, They need to keep it under the vette also or they will not beable to sell the thing, people will just buy the vette. Wouldnt make any sense to compete with their vette and the CTS, Thats what got GM in trouble in the first place, too many cars competing against each other and the costs of production to run with them all, I dont think they are going to get stupid again.

all three are aimed at different groups of people. the CTS is aimed at luxury the vette two seater performance and the camaro 2+2 with luggage room. lol. I personally would buy the CTS after I have the camaro and vette. the Vette would be a fun car for specifically the weekend. the camaro anytime performance. that's how I view it and why I will pick a camaro Z/28 over a base vette even if the Z comes in at $50k.

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by Qdiesel

People are not going to choose the V over a Z/28, they are two different animals not to mention a probable 20k price difference. The V is 70k out the door(mine was 73), no one will pay that for a Z.

you can bet some dealers will try to put a mark up on any Z28. . .I wouldn't doubt the first set of Z's will be around that price with those mark ups. thank god I have a good dealer. . .

[radz28]

Originally Posted by lawdog

That would be stupid, people are going to opt for the cts V for that kind of money so you get luxery and speed, They need to keep it under the vette also or they will not beable to sell the thing, people will just buy the vette. Wouldnt make any sense to compete with their vette and the CTS, Thats what got GM in trouble in the first place, too many cars competing against each other and the costs of production to run with them all, I dont think they are going to get stupid again.

[ls7camaro]

What is all this hype about the z28? Even a stock engine and a magnuson will make the LSA seem like nothing.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by ls7camaro

What is all this hype about the z28? Even a stock engine and a magnuson will make the LSA seem like nothing.

Power-wise - sure. In the long-term, maybe not. Read all of the features of LSA and then think about the potential above LS3. It's no GT500 engine, but it's reasonable.

[Robin Lawrence]

The Z28 was dead until the Camaro sales numbers went through the roof. There were many people at GM who think that it needs to be just like toyota or nissan. Real original thinkers I guess. Those people were calling the Camaro DOA before the orders started rolling in.

It's fortunate that the "Heritage" buyers stepped up and bought these cars.

They completely missed their projections of the mix from V6 cars to V8 cars. Dealer said they were supposed to be heavier on the V6 Sales....oops.
Still they are making money and that is what is important.

The very cool part is that I hear the same suspects who brought you the CTS-V and the SS Camaro are working on the not confirmed Z28. Certainly happy those toyota and nissan wanna bee's didn't get that job.

While the LSA was the favorite before june of last year I have not heard anything definate. ONe thing for sure is that I hear they want it to be quicker than the Shelby GT500.

Since the Shelby is a couple hundred pounds lighter and a few ponies short of the LSA I would think/hope/pray that they either lighten up the Z28 (very hard to do) or add a few more horsepower.

The cam in the LSA is so tame your grandmother would love that deal. I would say a small cam change should get them in the hunt.

Hmm, LS3 Cam, LS9 Intercooler to clear the cowl, should drop right in!

Of course you could always step and buy my LSA Powered Camaro

Robin

[Robin Lawrence]

Originally Posted by ls7camaro

What is all this hype about the z28? Even a stock engine and a magnuson will make the LSA seem like nothing.

Nope, the installation of a TVS 2300 on a stock LS3 is overkill. It's because the LS3 has 10.7 to 1 compression ratio they spin that deal at 5 to 6 pounds of boost. It is not running in its efficiency range. At the pulley speeds it is not as efficient as the TVS 1900 on the 9 to 1 in the LSA.

LSA also has piston oil squirters, steel crankshaft, better head gaskets, and heads with a better alloy.

Only a couple of Magnuson cars in the 10's

Most are built with lower compression pistons and strokers.

Robin

[Qdiesel]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

you can bet some dealers will try to put a mark up on any Z28. . .I wouldn't doubt the first set of Z's will be around that price with those mark ups. thank god I have a good dealer. . .

I have no doubt some dealers will mark that first batch up. Depending on when that first batch drops, I won't be in that group, lol. Me personally, if they mark them up too much, I'll buy a Vette.

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by 98_Camaro

But there was a difference with the Z/28.
For starters, the '67 Z's were a low profile car- I think they only made 607 in '67. It wasn't until '68 that they really took off when GM started to get brave and advertise them. Those 302's were race engines after all.
Furthermore, the Z/28's had a 302 whereas the SS's came with a 350 or 396, so while the Z/28 did come out later, it wasn't more powerful than the SS, which would appear to be the case with the new Z28 where we're anticipating something more powerful, ultimately throwing off the traditional relation between the SS and Z28.
Now, granted the SS was only run 15 years in the Camaro's history (if we're including 2010), it's been in that time that the Z28 has always been less powerful than the SS. Point and case aside from the older cars would be SLP's '02 SS which got the extra 10 hp (of course, I think that was just from an upgraded exhaust and a CAI, but valid evidence nonetheless).

Regardless, I think that in spite of the new Z's being more powerful than the SS's, we should appreciate that GM is coming out with something that can finally challenge the GT500.

Which engines were "more powerful" back in the day is subject to debate and speculation. Having bought a Z/28 in '69, I can safely say that in the first gen. Camaros 350cid 295/300HP SS was no match, 396cid 325HP SS was no match, 396cid 350HP SS was close, and 396cid 375HP SS was generally the only threat to a Z/28. Throw a few curves into the fray and NONE of the SS saw anything but Z/28 tail lights. I saw these type of results time after time after time on the drag strip and elsewhere.
Clyde

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by spyderbuddy

If i remember right, the Z28 used the 302 350 hp engine. it was designed to run in the transam wars. where there was a cap on engine size. It really was a 327 block with a 283 crank, forged rods, forged pistons, four barrel carb and standard shift. The SS was the muscle car it was straight line performance only, could be had with any engine combo starting with the 350 all the way up to the big dogs 396, 426, and finally a 454

First gen. Z/28 engine was 302cid 290HP factory rating, yes there was a 305cid limit for TransAm Sedan Series. You could call it a 327 block with a 283 crank, the reality is that the 302, 327, and 350 engines all used a block with a 4" bore, the big difference between the three was stroke with the 302 having the shortest at 3" stroke. The 350cid from that era had hydraulic lifters which limited them to a 5500 RPM factory redline and they had 10.25:1 compression, 396cid engines in both 325 and 350HP were similar to the 350in having lower compression, hydraulic lifters and 5500 RPM redlines. The 302 Z/28 had 11.0:1 compression with solid lifters and a factory redline of 6,000 or 6,500 redline depending on when the Z/28 was produced, that "little" 302 ran the same 780CFM Holley carb that was on the 427cid engine (and the 396cid 375HP engine was similar as far as compression, solid lifters, etc.). I can tell you from personal experience back in the day that the 302 would easily turn 7,000 RPM right off the showroom floor. The big dog engines in the first gen. were 427cid (426 was not a GM size) but were never regular production available as COPO only, the 454cid did not arrive until 1970 which would have made it a second gen. Camaro possibility though that would have most likely only been as a COPO and not regular production engine.
Clyde

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by spyderbuddy

uh uh The Orginial Z28's where not underrated, they where hot engine combo's. eazy 370hp these cars where designed to be high reving just for the reason you posted they were circuit cars designed for the transam wars again the engine were cap at 305 ci.

Oh yes, they were "underrated" as the factory rating was 290HP 290 torque, in reality they were closer to the 370HP rating you posted depending on whose numbers you looked at.
Clyde

[garfin]

Originally Posted by radz282003

Power-wise - sure. In the long-term, maybe not. Read all of the features of LSA and then think about the potential above LS3. It's no GT500 engine, but it's reasonable.

The good news is that the LSA responds extremely well to basic mods and tuning. As well, upgrades to the pulley, intercooler, heat exchanger and cam (LS9) are also showing good HP gains. There's lots that can be done on this puppy and the stock bottom end is proving to be very sturdy.
A lot of 2nd Gen V owners (LSA powered 2009-2010's) are rabid HP junkies as well and are running mid-11's @ 125-126 mph without a lot of difficulty.
The big issue is traction with all that power in a RWD vehicle. 0-60 times are only a bit faster than stock, but E.T.'s and trap speeds are significantly better.

Here's a vid of a 10 second V with 800+ HP


and here's one where OnStar calls in, thinking there might be "a vehicle emergency" at the track!


Best regardSS,

Elie

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by Qdiesel

I have no doubt some dealers will mark that first batch up. Depending on when that first batch drops, I won't be in that group, lol. Me personally, if they mark them up too much, I'll buy a Vette.

just find another dealer. like I told one dealer here in smithfield NC. I could fly anywhere in the country and drive back cheaper. and then showed him 3 places online that had camaros. and politely walked out of his show room.

[Nine Ball]

Originally Posted by Qdiesel

People are not going to choose the V over a Z/28, they are two different animals not to mention a probable 20k price difference. The V is 70k out the door(mine was 73), no one will pay that for a Z.

Prices on the V2 have come down quite a bit. I bought mine in December, just about any remaining '09 models in the country were marked down $10K off MSRP. I paid $54K for my '09 V2, brand new. MSRP $64K