"thePill" is hard to swallow

[KKreme15]

But let's not ignore his main point, this car is being marketed as a street legal "race car", and most of the faithful on here maintain the this car isn't for the guy that's just gonna take it to HPDE days. Well, it would seem that that is all you can do with this car - as the rules currently stand.

[Zfatuated]

Haha...

302S/R are pure, no VIN race cars. Sold through Ford parts dept. Cool cars. Cooler if you install some decent brakes (because the stock brakes are horribly undersized lol...) and a Watts Link rear suspension. I looked very seriously at buying one this time last year, was going to sink additional $9k into suspension, and another $8k into a set of real brakes (PITA ass to upgrade though). That results in an approx $107,000 302S. Plus tax of course.

A different opportunity came up so I passed on the 302S allocation a dealer offered me. Nifty cars, good looking, there is value there for certain drivers. I've always liked the fact Ford even offers such a thing as a part department bought race car.

So with that preface to my comments I find the odd thing about the gentleman posting on the other forum, and he does come across as credible because he is generally well-spoken, is he does not grasp that the Z/28 is a Street toy/out-of-the-box ready HPDE car.

Not a race car, like the 302S/R are.

Chalk and cheese.

Now I know some on here have thought the Z/28 is a race car and might race in some series somewhere, or whatever. It is not, it won't, nor is it anywhere close. It is mental masturbation to think otherwise.

It will be an incredible HPDE/Track day ready car capable of terrorizing $150k GT3RS's and a super-visceral road legal weekend fun machine. It'll be incredibly fun for short trips on the street, and even better, a perfect arrive and drive track day toy. The brakes/cooler/dry sump will give it the ability to play hard and still live to play another day, and another, and another, etc. And if it comes in at $65-70k'ish, an incredible value for what it offers.

And for HPDE/PDX track days, and even SCCA Time Trials, there is nothing "illegal" about any car (well, as long as it passes tech inspection for safety). How do I know? I've participated in them for years and am a currently licensed SCCA PDX/TT driving instructor. So I'm not just jacking off my synapses, I actually live the dream

Different strokes for different folks. We are all so fortunate to live at a time and in a place where we have these amazing fun cars available to buy "off-the-shelf". It is a wonderful time to be alive.

I'm super stoked to take delivery next year of the Z/28 I placed a deposit on and signed a purchase order for the week after they were announced.

Relax...enjoy...

[KMPrenger]

I am familiar enough with "thePill" to make an assessment.

The guy is no dummy, and at times makes valid points. I actually enjoyed reading some of his posts while he was here b/c I thought his insight on Mustang was interesting.

Then after reading more of his stuff, it is plain to see his eager bias against all things Camaro, and sometimes his posts just enter in the realm of "douche". All it takes is to read some of his comments on any over the Camaro vs. Mustang threads over on the SVT site.

Yes, he HATES Camaro5 with a passion and I'm not exactly sure why, but its obvious the guy is majorly butthurt over something someone(s) did to him over here. There is no talking any reason into that guy...he feels the Camaro as a whole is one big failure.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by Zfatuated

Haha...

302S/R are pure, no VIN race cars. Sold through Ford parts dept. Cool cars. Cooler if you install some decent brakes (because the stock brakes are horribly undersized lol...) and a Watts Link rear suspension. I looked very seriously at buying one this time last year, was going to sink additional $9k into suspension, and another $8k into a set of real brakes (PITA ass to upgrade though). That results in an approx $107,000 302S. Plus tax of course.

A different opportunity came up so I passed on the 302S allocation a dealer offered me. Nifty cars, good looking, there is value there for certain drivers. I've always liked the fact Ford even offers such a thing as a part department bought race car.

So with that preface to my comments I find the odd thing about the gentleman posting on the other forum, and he does come across as credible because he is generally well-spoken, is he does not grasp that the Z/28 is a Street toy/out-of-the-box ready HPDE car.

Not a race car, like the 302S/R are.

Chalk and cheese.

Now I know some on here have thought the Z/28 is a race car and might race in some series somewhere, or whatever. It is not, it won't, nor is it anywhere close. It is mental masturbation to think otherwise.

It will be an incredible HPDE/Track day ready car capable of terrorizing $150k GT3RS's and a super-visceral road legal weekend fun machine. It'll be incredibly fun for short trips on the street, and even better, a perfect arrive and drive track day toy. The brakes/cooler/dry sump will give it the ability to play hard and still live to play another day, and another, and another, etc. And if it comes in at $65-70k'ish, an incredible value for what it offers.

And for HPDE/PDX track days, and even SCCA Time Trials, there is nothing "illegal" about any car (well, as long as it passes tech inspection for safety). How do I know? I've participated in them for years and am a currently licensed SCCA PDX/TT driving instructor. So I'm not just jacking off my synapses, I actually live the dream

Different strokes for different folks. We are all so fortunate to live at a time and in a place where we have these amazing fun cars available to buy "off-the-shelf". It is a wonderful time to be alive.

I'm super stoked to take delivery next year of the Z/28 I placed a deposit on and signed a purchase order for the week after they were announced.

Relax...enjoy...

This.

[2cnd chance]

He will be excited by this thread. It will inflate his ego more than it already is (if that's even possible).

[FINALLYSATISFIED]

Originally Posted by KKreme15

But let's not ignore his main point, this car is being marketed as a street legal "race car", and most of the faithful on here maintain the this car isn't for the guy that's just gonna take it to HPDE days. Well, it would seem that that is all you can do with this car - as the rules currently stand.

Exactly.

[toehead93]

Most of his points were pure assumptions and mostly irrelvant. Besides no matter what car You have if you want to serious professional racing it needs to be modified in some way. The Z28 is a good platform regardless.

[shaffe]

I would like to hear Doc's opinion...

I see both sides, yes on most tracks, this car is going to dominate almost any other car on the same track as it. Thats a hell of an accomplishment for team camaro, and GM.

Yet this car is a modern version of the 67-69 Z/28s yet isnt legal to race in many series?

[Zfatuated]

If you want a race car, buy a race car, because a street car is not, nor will ever be, a race car. In spite of what any manufacturer would have you believe from reading their marketing materials. Your Camaro with a VIN shares nothing in common with the ALMS/Continental Challenge cars. Nor do the Porsches, Vettes, RX7's etc etc.

That is reality.

Who cares about the spew of some nameless, faceless forum poster who loves the sound of his own voice anyhow? (him, not me :-)) Are some of you so incapable/lazy of doing your own homework and forming your own decisions that you rely on some adolescent dreamer living in grandma's basement? I can't believe anyone who is actually a prospect to buy a Z/28 gives this guy a moments serious consideration?

Tighten Up!

[mkorgan]

Originally Posted by Zfatuated

If you want a race car, buy a race car, because a street car is not, nor will ever be, a race car. In spite of what any manufacturer would have you believe from reading their marketing materials. Your Camaro with a VIN shares nothing in common with the ALMS/Continental Challenge cars. Nor do the Porsches, Vettes, RX7's etc etc.

That is reality.

Who cares about the spew of some nameless, faceless forum poster who loves the sound of his own voice anyhow? (him, not me :-)) Are some of you so incapable/lazy of doing your own homework and forming your own decisions that you rely on some adolescent dreamer living in grandma's basement? I can't believe anyone who is actually a prospect to buy a Z/28 gives this guy a moments serious consideration?

Tighten Up!

hehehehe....I get a kick out of reading your posts...

[Zfatuated]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I would like to hear Doc's opinion...

I see both sides, yes on most tracks, this car is going to dominate almost any other car on the same track as it. Thats a hell of an accomplishment for team camaro, and GM.

Yet this car is a modern version of the 67-69 Z/28s yet isnt legal to race in many series?

What "both sides" is there? Do you not comprehend the Z/28 is not a race car? That there is nothing "illegal" to be discussed (it's a red herring)? How is this question even coming up? Have you ever actually stood next to an actual race car?

Do you have a crystal clear understanding of what DE/HPDE/Track Days are? And how they differ from actual racing? Time Trials? Do you understand how they differ from wheel-to-wheel racing?

Good gosh people, do some homework and understand what you are talking about...

[Zfatuated]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

hehehehe....I get a kick out of reading your posts...

Some of the posts here just kill me...and I can't resist some of my own spewing.

But, that is all from me for now because "there will always be someone wrong on the internet!" Lol!

[backtotintops]

Originally Posted by Zfatuated

because a street car is not, nor will ever be, a race car,

Huh? I ran a street car in SCCA T1 for many years. Kept plates on it too.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Zfatuated

What "both sides" is there? Do you not comprehend the Z/28 is not a race car? That there is nothing "illegal" to be discussed (it's a red herring)? How is this question even coming up? Have you ever actually stood next to an actual race car?

Do you have a crystal clear understanding of what DE/HPDE/Track Days are? And how they differ from actual racing? Time Trials? Do you understand how they differ from wheel-to-wheel racing?

Good gosh people, do some homework and understand what you are talking about...

Yes,I have been next to actual race cars, I used to race competitively a few years ago( All though I would never consider my car a race car haha). Our company used to sponsor an IHRA Drag car. I worked for a local drag racing series and was up close with many race cars, I had to deal with people having equipment on their cars that was not "legal" for the class they were racing in. I worked the behind the scenes of drag racing series, with cars ranging from 13.50 all the way down to 7.80 but maybe you don't consider a drag car a race car bc you seem to perfer the twisties, so you tell me have been I around a race car?

I will admit I did not word my post well at all. Still early need more coffee!

When I said both sides, what I should have said was this

I understand that this car is not a race car, and that people are going to be able to track it and do very well with it. It is a very track capable street car

The "other side" would be I can understand how some people may be upset/disappointed that with how track focused this car is, and how it follows the heritage of the 67-69 Z/28s that it as it sits wasnt really built to race in a specific series, but GM also stated that when the released the car. Maybe Im still not wording that right, lol. but I think it made sense as to what I should have said haha.