fuel economy???

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by Scotsman

whether or not cellulosic ethanol will take off and become widely available for public consumption.

If the proverbial poop was to hit the proverbial fan and there was some sort of shortage or stoppage of dinosaur juice fuel, I suspect production of things like ethanol and biodiesel would suddenly become popular and worth the investment. If the price is just ramped gradually like is currently happening, our anuses will get gradually used to the sodomy...

Edit: Er....I apologize for the

[gurulu68]

Has anyone seen this -



Boy I really wish GM would consider figureing out how to use this in all of it's cars especially the camaro now that gas is so expensive. We would be able to stop useing corn for fuel which would bring the price of food back down and it would put the Middle East and Venezuela out of commission in a hurry. How would they make money to wage war? google water for fuel.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by gurulu68

Has anyone seen this -www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf4gOS8aoFk. Boy I really wish GM would consider figureing out how to use this in all of it's cars especially the camaro now that gas is so expensive. We would be able to stop useing corn for fuel which would bring the price of food back down and it would put the Middle East and Venezuela out of commission in a hurry. How would they make money to wage war? google water for fuel.

Good intentions, but you are completely misguided. Like many, you see the end result and think its great. But the big picture isn't quite as bright. Know how he got that to burn? high amounts of energy, basicaly a giant microwave oven. Its like running a fan to power a wind turbine. You get some back, but you lose most of it. And food prices are more closely effected by oil prices than ethanol production. Pestacides, fertilizer, and transportation costs are all linked directly to the price of oil, and they are the bulk of the cost of growing crops.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

food prices are more closely effected by oil prices than ethanol production. Pestacides, fertilizer, and transportation costs are all linked directly to the price of oil, and they are the bulk of the cost of growing crops.

I have it straight from the farmer's mouth. Two farmers, in fact, on a truck forum. Corn price is actually a much smaller portion of food price than you'd expect.

[GMRULZ]

Originally Posted by NateZ

. I have a co-worker with an LS3-powered Corvette and he swears that he averages 23-24mpg. .

I can vouch for him, I average around 21-22 and I do much more city than hwy, plus I have a heavy foot and skip shift is disabled and I have an 06 LS2 Vette.

Weight is where its at. Lighter= better mpg....

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by GMRULZ

Weight is where its at. Lighter= better mpg....

Only true for city driving. Weight has a big effect on the amount of fuel required for acceleration.

For highway driving, drag is where it's at. Lower aerodynamic drag = better mpg. When crusing at a steady speed, weight doesn't matter much.

[ralniv]

Originally Posted by theholycow

Only true for city driving. Weight has a big effect on the amount of fuel required for acceleration.

For highway driving, drag is where it's at. Lower aerodynamic drag = better mpg. When crusing at a steady speed, weight doesn't matter much.

I have to disagree on this one for a few reasons.

[1] Most people have to vary their speed while driving. City driving is the extreme example, but even rural drivers face traffic signals, stop lights, traffic, turns, and other factors that cause you to vary speed (i.e. accelerate).

[2] Weight affects fuel economy at cruise as well and I do not believe it is negligible. Aerodynamic drag is essentially friction losses to the air (it's based on vehicle speed, drag coefficient, and vehicle size/area). There are also friction losses to the pavement via your tires. Weight impacts these frictional losses (it's weight, contact area, and coefficient of dynamic friction).

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by theholycow

I have it straight from the farmer's mouth. Two farmers, in fact, on a truck forum. Corn price is actually a much smaller portion of food price than you'd expect.

Honestly guys, how much corn do you eat. I'm sure your car already eats more.

[ralniv]

IMHO, corn (or other food commodities) are not the long term answer for alternative fuel. Food shortages are already a problem in some parts of the world and population growth will only exacerbate the problem. This compounds the issue that someone else raised (namely that generating bio-fuel from corn requires the use of considerable energy).

Recent development of "algae farms" for bio-fuel development appear promising and who knows what progress will be made in the next decade. Perhaps a breakthrough in hydrogen generation and storage will allow us to fuel our energy needs.

Many people scoff at the notion of replacing petroleum based fuels, but then again, many people scoffed at the notion that the Earth wasn't the center of the universe or that humans would ever fly or break the sound barrier. Change isn't easy or fast in most cases, but it will happen.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by ralniv

friction losses to the pavement via your tires. Weight impacts these frictional losses (it's weight, contact area, and coefficient of dynamic friction).

True, and weight also affects frictional losses in wheel bearings and drivetrain. However, those things (including tire rolling resistance) don't add up to much at all.

Originally Posted by ralniv

IMHO, corn (or other food commodities) are not the long term answer for alternative fuel. Food shortages are already a problem in some parts of the world and population growth will only exacerbate the problem.

For US concerns, food shortage is not an issue; if the farmers aren't growing stuff for fuel, then the US government is already paying them to NOT grow stuff for fear of overproduction. Might as well stop paying them for that and start paying them to grow stuff.

Recent development of "algae farms" for bio-fuel development appear promising and who knows what progress will be made in the next decade.

This is very cool stuff. There is a company in New Zealand (IIRC) that is growing algae on raw sewage and turning it into biodiesel. It cleans the raw sewage enough to use it to water crops, and it grows without much effort or intervention by humans.

Okay, I googled and got it:
http://www.aquaflowgroup.com/technology.html

Many people scoff at the notion of replacing petroleum based fuels

I just want to keep driving cars with internal combustion engines, and I want to keep the classics running on their classic fuels. I don't mind what fuel new cars run on as long as they drive the way I like.

[2xtrbo]

I really don't care what that sticker in the window says. I will buy one anyway.

[Grape Ape]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Good intentions, but you are completely misguided. Like many, you see the end result and think its great. But the big picture isn't quite as bright. Know how he got that to burn? high amounts of energy, basicaly a giant microwave oven. Its like running a fan to power a wind turbine. You get some back, but you lose most of it.

There is no free lunch.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

And food prices are more closely effected by oil prices than ethanol production. Pestacides, fertilizer, and transportation costs are all linked directly to the price of oil, and they are the bulk of the cost of growing crops.

Originally Posted by theholycow

I have it straight from the farmer's mouth. Two farmers, in fact, on a truck forum. Corn price is actually a much smaller portion of food price than you'd expect.

That is true in the "developed nations", but no one is rioting in my 'hood.

In the "developing nations" (aka third world) things are different and food prices are being affected.

Originally Posted by The_Blur

Honestly guys, how much corn do you eat. I'm sure your car already eats more.

If you start reading labels you will probably find that you eat and drink far more corn than you realize.

Also farmers can do math and will switch from wheat, hops, barley, potatoes or whatever to corn if they can make more which will reduce the supply of those inputs and drive up the prices which could mean higher prices for bread, beer and vodka. Google "hops shortage" if you don't believe me.

[gurulu68]

Has anyone bought a loaf of bread lately?... It has doubled. Have you heard about the rice shortages? That's not just the price of oil affecting futures. It's all those farmers switching to corn. and you don't need a microwave to convert water to hydrogen just google water for fuel and you'll see how many devices they've all ready com up with that can easily fit in your car. those systems aren't perfect but they sound very interesting.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by gurulu68

Has anyone bought a loaf of bread lately?... It has doubled. Have you heard about the rice shortages? That's not just the price of oil affecting futures.

You wanna bet? There are many factors affecting prices of food, I'll give you that (and agricultural choices is one, as is world demand for our food). But THE single biggest factor is fuel costs. Imagine how much gas was used to grind the wheat into flour, ship the flour to the bakery, ship the bread to the stores (in some cases)...Gas/Diesel has a HUGE impact on food prices. It has a huge impact of freakin' everything!

And the rice shortages aren't really 'shortages'...I forget the details, but it was on teh nightly news (you know, the people who like bad-news stories...) They said that it was speculation, and presumed conditions; Not actual conditions that is driving price up...which is completely stupid to judge prices by.