What matters; HP or TQ?

[DSX_Camaro]

I can agree with that much more readily. Such as the Ecoboost V6 F150 vs the Ecoboost Taurus SHO. Same engine, same boost, same horsepower, but the F150 has (I think) 60 more ftlbs of torque.

[Bo White]

Originally Posted by ayousef

So Torque and RPM are what make horsepower, because HP = (torque x RPM)/5252.
If you can make as much torque as early as possible in the power band, then MAINTAIN it as much as possible for a given rev range then you make the highest average horsepower across your graph and you win.

My point exactly.
"You want to build as much torque as you can and carry it as high as you can in rpm. HP is figured off of torque. You measure torque and then figure HP. "

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by DSX_Camaro

I can agree with that much more readily. Such as the Ecoboost V6 F150 vs the Ecoboost Taurus SHO. Same engine, same boost, same horsepower, but the F150 has (I think) 60 more ftlbs of torque.

You are still only looking at a peak number. If car A makes 300 lb-ft at 3000 RPM and car B makes 400 lb-ft at 3000 RPM, car B also makes more HP at 3000 RPM (228 vs 171). You can't feel torque you feel acceleration (g). Acceleration requires power, which is work done over time.

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[jessrayo]

I'm going to throw this out there just to muddy the waters some more.... As was mentioned previously, all graphs of torque and horsepower cross at 5252. Horsepower is equal to torque at 5252. Think about that for a minute......This is a mathematical fact with no exceptions. The torques will be higher below 5252 rpms, the horsepower will be higher above 5252 rpms. The important question is at what rpm are you going to be operating your engine? If you are going to keep your close ratio transmission on the pipe and keep rpms above 5000 then you need horsepower. If you are going to stomp it at 2500 rpm and want some grunt you need torque. If your diesel engine redlines at 4500 you don't give a rats ass about horsepower because your engine always makes more torque. If you are riding a crazy bullet bike reving to 12,000 or driving a F1 car with a similar redline torque doesn't mean crap because you are always in the horsepower range above 5252 rpm when driving the car or bike. At 5252 they are equal, if you add one (horses or torque), at 5252 you will add both. Some mods make the engine better on the bottom, some make it better on the top.... My original question comes into play, where do you keep the rpm when "using" the engine? Answer this and you have your answer which is more important.

[DSX_Camaro]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

You are still only looking at a peak number. If car A makes 300 lb-ft at 3000 RPM and car B makes 400 lb-ft at 3000 RPM, car B also makes more HP at 3000 RPM (228 vs 171). You can't feel torque you feel acceleration (g). Acceleration requires power, which is work done over time.

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Yes sir, I understand that. Merely talking from a numeric standpoint. But that makes me wonder... if the Camaro and Mustang weighed very similar weights, wouldn't a Camaro be faster due to higher horsepower? (Most mathematically notable at peak torque, where the Camaro makes 278 @ 4800rpm, equating to 254hp at that level, where as a Mustang would be producing 280 @ 4250, meaning 226hp...) If I'm understanding.

[Bo White]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

I'm going to throw this out there just to muddy the waters some more.... As was mentioned previously, all graphs of torque and horsepower cross at 5252. Horsepower is equal to torque at 5252. Think about that for a minute......This is a mathematical fact with no exceptions. The torques will be higher below 5252 rpms, the horsepower will be higher above 5252 rpms. The important question is at what rpm are you going to be operating your engine? If you are going to keep your close ratio transmission on the pipe and keep rpms above 5000 then you need horsepower. If you are going to stomp it at 2500 rpm and want some grunt you need torque. If your diesel engine redlines at 4500 you don't give a rats ass about horsepower because your engine always makes more torque. If you are riding a crazy bullet bike reving to 12,000 or driving a F1 car with a similar redline torque doesn't mean crap because you are always in the horsepower range above 5252 rpm when driving the car or bike. At 5252 they are equal, if you add one (horses or torque), at 5252 you will add both. Some mods make the engine better on the bottom, some make it better on the top.... My original question comes into play, where do you keep the rpm when "using" the engine? Answer this and you have your answer which is more important.

If you can carry good torque past 5252 then you will have good HP past 5252, same example if you will. The sooner the engine falls off torque the faster the engine will fall off HP. This is why Caddy engines make so much torque and not a lot of HP because of this, it doesn't carry torque well up in rpm. You have to have torque to figure HP in this equation. The further the torque can be carried in rpm the more HP will be made.

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by Bo White

If you can carry good torque past 5252 then you will have good HP past 5252, same example if you will. The sooner the engine falls off torque the faster the engine will fall off HP. This is why Caddy engines make so much torque and not a lot of HP because of this, it doesn't carry torque well up in rpm. You have to have torque to figure HP in this equation. The further the torque can be carried in rpm the more HP will be made.

The thing about the equation is if you know one number at any rpm you will know the other value at the same rpm but what happens at different rpm varies considerably depending on the motor design.

I think the reason caddy motors make so much torque is because the engineers know most Cadillac drivers are not going to rev the engines over 5252 so they emphasize by design things that make make more torque rather than horsepower.

[Bo White]

Exactly. You design the engine based on the torque curve you want it to produce. HP is what you want then you need an engine that can carry good TQ through RPM. This is why variable cam timing was brought about.

[1 BADD 1LE]

Torque wins races, not horsepower!

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by 1 BADD 1LE

Torque wins races, not horsepower!

It does if you have the engine below 5252 rpm for most of the race. If you race a bike that revs over 9000rpm, the one with the most horsepower wins.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

So, general consensus is: MORE IS BETTER!!!
(either, or, both, yes)

Were you a nuke wrench monkey? Does this discussion remind you of anything from the Rickover?

[dreksnot]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

Were you a nuke wrench monkey? Does this discussion remind you of anything from the Rickover?

A sparky nuke. Regards!

The folks here are arguing apples and oranges. HP and Torque are different numeric units and they're arguing the numbers of each being "more better" than the other. To complicate their arguments, one is a variable in the other's equation making it a dependent, thus a linear function. And, heavens no!, I ain't claiming to know any more than anyone else here - I'm just letting myself be entertained by the attempt at persuasive arguments going on here. Here's my $1.05 addition to the argument - hooking with more is better. Light 'em up, boys!

[SSE 4 2SS]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

A sparky nuke. Regards!

- hooking with more is better.

This says it all... the more you can hook with, the faster / quicker you go...

Oh no, now that part is thrown in... quicker vs faster...

[Mr. Nasty]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

This says it all... the more you can hook with, the faster / quicker you go...

Oh no, now that part is thrown in... quicker vs faster...