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Old 08-18-2013, 10:00 PM   #1
N8ten
 
Drives: 1968 Camaro
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: san diego
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need info on '68 4 speed swap

Hey guys, I have a 68 327 powerglide camaro. I want to drop in either a 2004r 4 speed auto or Muncie 4 speed (thinking a M20). My glide works just fine but I would like more get up and go through the gears. The 2004r seems like a easy install I would need a tranny, converter, shift detent and kit, lock-up kit and move my cross-member a 1/4" seems like I could do it for around $1000.

What do I need for a M20 conversion? how much could I piece it all for? Tranny, bellhousing, pressure plate, clutch, shifter, and pedal kit???. for this swap does my driveshaft need lenghthened/shortened? will my glide X-member work? and how much would this swap cost? I can do the work myself Im just not familiar with this swaps required parts, I know a mllion ppl have done this and I have tried searching the swap on the old interweb but I couldnt find anything good. if you have done this can you please help me out with detailed info on a parts list and walk through... or if anyone has a link for this swap that would be great! A shop said the whole hard parts list would sell for 3K Im thinking it can be done cheaper..maybe im wrong.

Which swap would be overall better? I dont use my car for racing but I would like some more get up and go from my drivetrain. I would prefer a manual but I cant afford to drop 3K to do it...My 327 has a cam, intake manifold, holly 650, dual flowmaster H pipe, posi,

Thanks for the help!
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:26 AM   #2
pincoin
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Your cross member is the same. The little parts are going to drive you nuts, be prepared for this to take a while.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:57 AM   #3
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It MIGHT just be around $3k.?.? I mean, a new version of the M20 is probably over $2k. Can even get the "new" M22. I see (and have bought) used M21s for sale for around $700-1k. But you never know what you are getting into...

I ended up buying a date correct M21 that was rebuilt with some improved parts for, I think, $1200. I sold a "correct" bell housing for $150. Scatter shields are about $450. I sold my old M21 plus another I bought together for $1500. Both were VERY used. I sold a never used Hurst Comp+ shifter for $275. You can get the pedals, linkage, z-bar, fork, etc. either used or from various vendors. Flywheel, too. Clutch kits are around $350. Driveshaft? I think it is close enough.?.?

You can go over to camaros.net and do a search or just ask. There is a lot of modding going on over there...

Something to concider: The 4-speed is definitely not a freeway transmission. Well, people do it and I use to do it all the time. But now a days, it just seems like all the RPM and not much to show for it. People are going to 5-speeds w/o having to modifying their cars. Though, the kits are about $3500. I may be going that route in the future if my budget allows. Who am I kidding, I haven't even been able to afford paint for the last 27 years (other priorities)...
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:08 PM   #4
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Manual - IMHO a 5speed is better than a wide ratio M20,M21 or the close ratio rock crusher louder M22.
Auto - look at the gearing and torque requirements for a 2004R sometimes also called the 200R4 or a 700R4. I have a 700R4 in my 69 with a 468BB love it.

The gearing for the 200-4R is:
First - 2.74:1
Second - 1.57:1
Third - 1.00:1
Fourth - 0.67:1
Reverse - 2.07:1

The gearing for the 700 is:
First - 3.059:1
Second - 1.625:1
Third - 1.000:1
Fourth - 0.696:1
Reverse - 2.294:1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo-Hydramatic#THM200-4R
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:24 AM   #5
MaukaRunner
 
Drives: 2010 L99 2SS in Silver Ice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8ten View Post
Hey guys, I have a 68 327 powerglide camaro. I want to drop in either a 2004r 4 speed auto or Muncie 4 speed (thinking a M20). My glide works just fine but I would like more get up and go through the gears. The 2004r seems like a easy install I would need a tranny, converter, shift detent and kit, lock-up kit and move my cross-member a 1/4" seems like I could do it for around $1000.

What do I need for a M20 conversion? how much could I piece it all for? Tranny, bellhousing, pressure plate, clutch, shifter, and pedal kit???. for this swap does my driveshaft need lenghthened/shortened? will my glide X-member work? and how much would this swap cost? I can do the work myself Im just not familiar with this swaps required parts, I know a mllion ppl have done this and I have tried searching the swap on the old interweb but I couldnt find anything good. if you have done this can you please help me out with detailed info on a parts list and walk through... or if anyone has a link for this swap that would be great! A shop said the whole hard parts list would sell for 3K Im thinking it can be done cheaper..maybe im wrong.

Which swap would be overall better? I dont use my car for racing but I would like some more get up and go from my drivetrain. I would prefer a manual but I cant afford to drop 3K to do it...My 327 has a cam, intake manifold, holly 650, dual flowmaster H pipe, posi,

Thanks for the help!
Don't forget the bellcrank, pivot ball and bracket for the frame unless you are going with a hydraulic throwout bearing. I converted my '80 Z from auto to stick and it was pretty easy since the frame already had the holes for the bellcrank bracket. The stock bolts are notched so it's self tapping. Not sure if the notched bolts are still available but if not just tap them out. Also, check to make sure your block is tapped for the pivot ball.

Like the others, I agree a 5 speed would be a better swap. I ran a 2.20 M21 with 4.56 gears and on the freeway I was revving over 2500 RPM just keeping it at the speed limit. With a lower first gear and a overdrive 5th I could have ran 3.73 or 3.42 rear gearing and would have had better performance and economy.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaukaRunner View Post
Don't forget the bellcrank, pivot ball and bracket for the frame unless you are going with a hydraulic throwout bearing. I converted my '80 Z from auto to stick and it was pretty easy since the frame already had the holes for the bellcrank bracket. The stock bolts are notched so it's self tapping. Not sure if the notched bolts are still available but if not just tap them out. Also, check to make sure your block is tapped for the pivot ball.
On a 68 , it shares a subframe with the Nova/Chevy II line.

The setup should be the same.

Find an old stick 68-74 Nova with all the parts on it and have at it.
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