rear end gear change and nitrous: smell of desperation : gt 500

[Butcher]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

It would be desperate for a easy install guy who supposedly can install his own pulleys and nitrous, and rear end and entire exhaust etc etc when it goes wrong...like two days in the drive way can do it...lol This is a chevy site wake up oh ford guys go to a ford site. here is the bargain i researched from checking a hell of a lot of tuners.

2012 Camaro ZL1 Head/Cam, Header, CAI, Pulley, Balancer, Tune Package Installed

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Price:
$10,449.00

SKU:
ZL1PKG3

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Brand:
Livernois

Condition:


Weight:
1.00 LBS

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Upgraded Heat Exchanger:

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Product Description

Livernois Motorsports CNC Cylinder Heads
Livernois Motorsports Stage 2C Camshaft
ARP Head Studs
Hardened Pushrods
GM 3-Bolt Timing Chain Sprocket
2.5" Supercharger Pulley
Double Bearing Idler Pulley
Innovators West Oversize Balancer
Oversize Crank Pulley Ring
Solid Supercharger Coupler
Cold Air Intake
NGK TR6 Spark Plugs
160 Degree Thermostat
GM 90mm Throttle Body
GM Supercharger Discharge to Intercooler Gasket
Stainless Longtube Headers & Catted Connection Pipe
Fluids
Professional Installation
Livernois Motorsports Dyno Tune
Add Livernois Motorsports Exclusive Heat Exchanger Upgrade for $2,000.00
Note: Adds 200-220 RWHP. Power levels may vary depending on testing conditions as well as individual vehicle


Well for 200 rear wheel h.p. that means it adds alot more due to the loss from the engine back. So I spend 10.5 k on livernois add a super chiller for $600 and I have a car like livernois in the high nines with just a torque converter change on my auto trans that is more consistant and cost about what I would pay for the gt 500 with the "options" like coolers, svt track pack, recaros, etc.... And I get a faster better handling car dollar for dollar with better options.

Sure it is not like the old days when changing a cam for $200 made a world of difference we are talking basically $50 for each rear wheel h.p. gain. But his would make it more of a supercar status no doubt what so ever.

And that is something the mustang connot compete with on a dollar for dollar level.

So, you're going to have over $12,000 in mods, and you still won't be in the 9's. You aren't going to run 9's on the stock wheels and tires. You're not going to run 9's on 20" drag radials. You'll need about $2,500 in wheels and tires to get in the nines. After you spend $15,000, you will still have hypereutectic pistons. You will also have to replace your valvesprings every couple of years. Your car won't be anymore reliable or bulletproof than a 9 second GT500. Running 9's in a 4000+ pound street car isn't as easy or care-free as some people think it is.

[Supercharged SS]

Originally Posted by Butcher

Running 9's in a 4000+ pound street car isn't as easy or care-free as some people think it is.

This is the smartest statement I've read on here in a while. People think you can just throw 700+ rwhp at a car, take it to the track, and it's going to go 9.xx. Doesn't work that way.

[9secs]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

It would be desperate for a easy install guy who supposedly can install his own pulleys and nitrous, and rear end and entire exhaust etc etc when it goes wrong...like two days in the drive way can do it...lol This is a chevy site wake up oh ford guys go to a ford site. here is the bargain i researched from checking a hell of a lot of tuners.

And that is something the mustang connot compete with on a dollar for dollar level.

Actually yes, most anyone whos used a wrench in thier life and knows very little about a car can do ALL of those things with the internet at his fingertips... And yes ALL of that can be done pretty easily in 2 days, maybe 1 if you worked at it...Both of these cars mod easily dollar for dollar they both will pick up power. I dont think anything you have posted in here makes any sense to anyone except you. Saying the modular engine isnt as reliable as the pushrod?? seriously?? Pushrod or modular if you take care of them they are both very reliable.

Heres a approximate price list.

8.8 4.10 gears apprx $200
pulley apprx $200
a good nitrous setup apprx $1000
headers and exhaust approx $2000
Handheld tuner $500
Dyno tuning $250-600

(tires of course would be needed aswell)

So for less than 5,000 you can mod the gt500 yourself, and the zl1 prices are probably very similar. When you talk about heads/cams you can easily put close to 3000+ dollars into heads alone with port work and valves. Both of these cars come with very capable heads and shortblocks that dont need to be touched as long as they are tuned correctly. Its too bad they didnt make the Zl1 with a huge weiand blower sticking out of the hood and a giant cam like back in the day... bet that would really get you excited.

[880]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

I was looking at some u tube yesterday and saw a couple gt-500's in the nines....Knowing that I want a livernois build to get there just for kicks I went to the tuner sites for the gt-500 to see what they did to get into the nines.

SO I read they both went with 123 mm throttle bodies to pump more air fuel mixture, And they both went to three inch exhaust with x pipe and they both went with headers. And they both went with pulley changes to add even more boost. No mention of idler change etc......

Also I read they both changed the rear end to 4.10 gears and gave them a nitrous shot. Both of therse moves remind me of Biff Tanner in the "back to the future" movie when he drives that big 4wd truck up to michael j. fox at the stop light and revs his engine to race.

If this is what the ford tuners do I would gladly do a " back to the future" turn to another road to get away from them.

Being a old hot rodder there are things I know I will not go to the trouble of doing because they suck. Like take a engine allready running a lot of boost and shove nitrous in to it. I like to be street- strip, not captain insano.

And the second thing I definitely would not do is shove 4.10 gears in instead of 3.31 gears stock so I could go faster on the track but run at 6000 rpm driving 65 on the freeway. I like to daily drive my car.

Thats why I can really say a nice super chiller and a livernois build make so much more practical my choice to get to nines, and much more streetable the zl1 with all its cushy options the gt-500 does not have, and I can take all the extra money the ford guys will spend going to the nines and buy a economy car too if I really want one.....lol like I need another car. A livernois build will suit me just fine thank you very much

And then I can do nines for less with out being desperate like some Biff Tanner ford fanatic whose company just happened to match chevies 6.2 liter engine with a 1.9 liter supercharger by doing thier own math......5.4 liter..over bore new sleeves= 5.8 liter + 2.3 liter supercharger.

Coincidence...or the smell of desperation? Smells like burnt engine to me.

Are you talking about the ending scene in Back to the Future 3? That wasn't Biff Tanner...

[VRYALT3R3D]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

.....chevy made the zl1 before ford made the new gt500. .......

The new generation GT500 is built from 2007-2013+

[ZO6 Bryan]

Originally Posted by 880

Are you talking about the ending scene in Back to the Future 3? That wasn't Biff Tanner...

Nope, it was Flea from Red Hot Chili Peppers.

[NASTY99Z28]

If you compare the 3 cars at hand the zl1 does come away as the more streetable car but the problem with that is everyone has his or her own opinion on what they consider "streetable". Yes the zl1 needed heads and a cam but it's a size that many ls based motors live with as daily drivers so nothing out of the norm as far as that goes. Also the zl1 hit 9's by only adding power and a small stall as where the evolution motorsports gt500 needed full drag suspension smaller rear brakes and had to remove 3 out of 4 seats on top of the bolt ons they added to run 9's. As for the lethal motorsports gt500 they also needed smaller brakes and then basic bolt ons with who knows how much spray to run 9's but we all know that once your bottle runs out so does the power.

I'm in no way bashing any of the 3 cars or the builders since they all went there own way about getting their car to run 9's which in itself is pretty cool but as it stands I think livernois won out with the best all around package but at the end of the day it's just my opinion....


On a side note livernois sold their zl1 to a guy that plans on road racing it just the way it is which is something neither of those 9 second mustangs could do.

[NASTY99Z28]

Originally Posted by HpJunkie69

If im not mistaken the ZL1 needed h/c and nitrous to run a 9sec pass. I consider that digging into the motor.

No sir livernois went 9's with "NO" nitrous.

Originally Posted by 9secs

Heres a approximate price list.

8.8 4.10 gears apprx $200
pulley apprx $200
a good nitrous setup apprx $1000
headers and exhaust approx $2000
Handheld tuner $500
Dyno tuning $250-600

(tires of course would be needed aswell)

So for less than 5,000 you can mod the gt500 yourself, and the zl1 prices are probably very similar. When you talk about heads/cams you can easily put close to 3000+ dollars into heads alone with port work and valves. Both of these cars come with very capable heads and shortblocks that dont need to be touched as long as they are tuned correctly. Its too bad they didnt make the Zl1 with a huge weiand blower sticking out of the hood and a giant cam like back in the day... bet that would really get you excited.

Well you missed a few things and by that I mean a lot. You forgot about the cold air kit,throttle body,smaller brakes on the rear and that just for the lethal gt500. The evolution also had smaller front brakes and full race suspension all of which add a good chunk to the total. Now for the biggest factor the labor you are comparing a shop price that includes labor to a list of parts that your assuming everyone can install themselves so to keep it apples to apples you need to include that which would bring the price to about the same.

[islander033]

[101fng]

unfortunately OP, my post was a little on the derogatory side and got deleted. sorry.

you are arguing the reliability, repeatability, and affordability of two MODDED cars, and from your post it is apparent that you still have a lot to learn about "hot rodding."

you're also taking those 9 second runs out of context. those shops that you referenced are always competing with each other to be the "first into the 9's, 8's, etc". they don't care about "streetability". all they want is quick mods that will get them to the 9's before the other shop. yes, nitrous ontop of copious amounts of boost is dangerous, but to them, it's an easy way to get the title of "first into 9's" as long as it lasts for that one 9 second run.

and as any REAL hot rodder should know, there's more than one way to skin a cat. it's their build, not yours. i can promise you beyond any shadow of a doubt, that these shops are fully aware that there are other ways to mod those cars to run the times they want to run. i'd like to see how you mod your zl1 to run 9's if you were given a week timeline (doing it yourself like these shops are doing). until you have a 9 second slip in your hand, you have ZERO room to criticize the way another person mods their vehicle of choice. you sound exactly like that typical ricer that always has "a friend" that knows a guy with a 1200hp supra.

[72MachOne99GT]

I post also got deleted, and seeing as it was just as useful and thought out as The original post, I've decided to call the moderator who did so a tool.

It's evident this is nothing but an uneducated rant by some blabbering ZL1 fanboy.
As Ibe said again and again, there is no need to bash or attempt to discredit another vehicle to make your choice/preference valid.

I'm aware the GT500 is a bigger handful on rough streets, doesn't handle as well, but I'm not off making random incoherent posts about the ZL1 and why I think it sucks.

Grow up, deal with the shortcomings or over achievements, and move on.

[880]

Originally Posted by 101fng

unfortunately OP, my post was a little on the derogatory side and got deleted. sorry.

you are arguing the reliability, repeatability, and affordability of two MODDED cars, and from your post it is apparent that you still have a lot to learn about "hot rodding."

you're also taking those 9 second runs out of context. those shops that you referenced are always competing with each other to be the "first into the 9's, 8's, etc". they don't care about "streetability". all they want is quick mods that will get them to the 9's before the other shop. yes, nitrous ontop of copious amounts of boost is dangerous, but to them, it's an easy way to get the title of "first into 9's" as long as it lasts for that one 9 second run.

and as any REAL hot rodder should know, there's more than one way to skin a cat. it's their build, not yours. i can promise you beyond any shadow of a doubt, that these shops are fully aware that there are other ways to mod those cars to run the times they want to run. i'd like to see how you mod your zl1 to run 9's if you were given a week timeline (doing it yourself like these shops are doing). until you have a 9 second slip in your hand, you have ZERO room to criticize the way another person mods their vehicle of choice. you sound exactly like that typical ricer that always has "a friend" that knows a guy with a 1200hp supra.

Oh yes...there's always the "good thing you didn't run into my friend who has a 1000awhp GT-R, STi, Millenium Falcon, blablabla..."

[101fng]

and for your sake OP, do a little research about the engine you hate so much, it is NOT sleeved and overbored. there are no sleeves in that engine which is where it get's it's extra bore from (nissan used the same concept on their GT-R). the way they line the bores is actually a really interesting process. you should read a little.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by 101fng

you're also taking those 9 second runs out of context. those shops that you referenced are always competing with each other to be the "first into the 9's, 8's, etc". they don't care about "streetability". all they want is quick mods that will get them to the 9's before the other shop. yes, nitrous ontop of copious amounts of boost is dangerous, but to them, it's an easy way to get the title of "first into 9's" as long as it lasts for that one 9 second run.

This^ almost all of these shops with both the ZL1 and GT500 and these "quick" builds just want to be the first in 9s 8s, fastest lapt time at "insert track here" First 1000RWHP build. They build these cars as fast as they can, to be the first to do so. you know why? marketing. Look it worked, all the builds referenced in this thread have come from companies that first here or there, and bc of that people want to spend their money at that shop.

Does not mean its the only way to do it, just means thats what they did so they could be the first to do it.

Also how is changing the rear end gears more desperate then changing the cams and heads?