Now the tests out, ZL1 over hyped

[GT5Junkie]

Has anyone found a racing series that you'll actually be able to race the ZL1 in? Seems kinda weird to put all this effort into handling if you can't even go race SCCA STO or something in it. Otherwise it seems like all you'll be doing is track days where no one is really even keeping track or caring about what's running what.

[mr_desmo]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

I don't understand why one would claim that "those of us that don't believe all the hype are redeemed," because the ZL1's numbers and facts from the Nurburgring and the track at Inde Ranch are impressive and the ZL1 delivered the level of performance on the track that Chevrolet indicated that it would.

The ZL1 ran the Nurburgring in 7:41:27.

On the 2.2 mile track at Inde the ZL1 beat the Boss 302, Ford's Mustang intended for the track, by 2.45 seconds or almost 18 car lengths at the ZL1's average track speed of 78.13 MPH.

Are you attempting to argue that those numbers are not impressive, or that they didn't meet expectations?

You guys makes no sence!!!! Yes the Boss 302 is made for the track the same way an integra type r and a lotus exige are made for the track and im pretty damn sure a zl1 is faster and not a tighter track car....

Thats like comparing a porsche panamera turbo s (which does the 1/4 in the 11's) to a GT3....the panamera is a fat prick (4200pds) compared to the GT3 (around 3150ibs) but because of electric shocks pdk lunch control 4 by 4 2lsd,etc ...the fat car is faster but that does not make it more of a track car...

Hell a porsche boxster is WAY more of a track star then a zl1 can ever hope to be.
runs deeeeeeeeeeeeeep but dont let that fool ya!

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by GT5Junkie

Has anyone found a racing series that you'll actually be able to race the ZL1 in? Seems kinda weird to put all this effort into handling if you can't even go race SCCA STO or something in it. Otherwise it seems like all you'll be doing is track days where no one is really even keeping track or caring about what's running what.

I was wondering the same thing, what series are we gonna be able to catch the zl1 racing in?

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by mr_desmo

You guys makes no sence!!!! Yes the Boss 302 is made for the track the same way an integra type r and a lotus exige are made for the track and im pretty damn sure a zl1 is faster and not a tighter track car....

Thats like comparing a porsche panamera turbo s (which does the 1/4 in the 11's) to a GT3....the panamera is a fat prick (4200pds) compared to the GT3 (around 3150ibs) but because of electric shocks pdk lunch control 4 by 4 2lsd,etc ...the fat car is faster but that does not make it more of a track car...

???? .... I'm not sure what you are trying to imply. Are you trying to imply that the GT500 is faster around the track than the Boss 302?

Motor Trend tested both at Laguna Seca and the Boss was faster around the track than the GT500 was by about 4 seconds.

[GT5Junkie]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

???? .... I'm not sure what you are trying to imply. Are you trying to imply that the GT500 is faster around the track than the Boss 302?

Motor Trend tested both at Laguna Seca and the Boss was faster around the track than the GT500 was by about 4 seconds.

That's the 2010 GT500, with the iron block and no performance package.

The ONLY head to head between the GT500 and Boss that's ever been done was done by InsideLine and the GT500 won by about half a second despite being a heavily abused press car with a notchy tranny, and that's on a short track (1:25 laps).

[2cnd chance]

Just reread Randy's comments in the MT article. What this is, is a "Big" leap forward in Muscle Car performance technology.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by zero

I can`t say I am blown away or excited about the ZL1 now that tests are out.
Sorry it doesn`t live up to all the hype. The boss is more impressive IMO with less motor.

Prepare for MAJOR upset and butt hurt when they test it against the new GT500.

Blue oval guys are gonna have a holiday with ZL1

Originally Posted by den318

It better come out on top of the Boss302. We all know the Boss's big brother is around the corner. I have to say the ZL1 handles great in the track, but the straight line number is kinda slow. It's barely faster than the current GT500 or Boss302.

Originally Posted by den318

If you don't want a Moustang/Rustang to outrun a Camaro, then you better tell Chevy to up the HP or lose the weight. The ZL1 is one of the slowest 580HP car in the quarter miles.

Originally Posted by zero

still over hyped IMO it`s not like it blew the boss off the track. If the reg boss beat the camaro SS by 2 secs lap we all be saying not that big deal considering the boss made for handling, our SS are heavy etc, etc....

Now we have a camaro ZL1 with it`s super high tech state of art suspension, ton of power and all the hype they shoveled at us and now...

2 SECS faster than Boss LS and now it`s night and day difference and I should be impressed.

Originally Posted by Deki

The flip side to this is, if it's a companies halo car, such as the GT500 is to Ford, wouldn't they want to make faster and better developments more often to keep it relevant within the class segment they are in? The way you put it, Chevy trickles down stuff from the Corvette to the Camaro, but look how long they've had magnetic shocks in the Vettes and how long it took them to put it in the 5th Gen. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if I'm buying a Porsche Cayman, I'm not gonna go look to see how the GT2RS is before I make a decision, just like EVERYONE I know who's bought an SS didn't give two hoots about a ZR1, Z06, or even a Grand Sport, or how they perform compared to their respective competition. If the SS wasn't good enough for you, and you decided to wait 3 years to get a ZL1, if the 2013 GT500 turns out to be faster, and loosely speaking "better" than it in every way, would you regret your purchase? The logic you are using would dictate that you would. Even if the GT500 doesn't best the ZL1, would you regret your purchase knowing that a Grand Sport could very well be quicker on a road course than the ZL1? Once again, the logic you are using dictates you would. Markets are defined by class and price, the ZR-1 and the Z06 in no way even remotely compare to the GT500 or the ZL1.

Originally Posted by GT5Junkie

Has anyone found a racing series that you'll actually be able to race the ZL1 in? Seems kinda weird to put all this effort into handling if you can't even go race SCCA STO or something in it. Otherwise it seems like all you'll be doing is track days where no one is really even keeping track or caring about what's running what.

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

I was wondering the same thing, what series are we gonna be able to catch the zl1 racing in?

Interesting series of posts.

We'll start with what 2 seconds a lap translates to.

• INDY 500 6.6 minutes
• 24 Hour Rolex Daytona 24.03 minutes
• SCCA T1 2012 Championship 26 Seconds

2 Seconds a lap is an eternity on a road course.

Mustang vs Camaro

The rivalry is fantastic. I remember bumper stickers that use to read -- I would rather walk than ride in a Chevy / Ford. I hope the debate continues for another 100 years. On the other hand, there are some facts that get in the way of discourse.

• Lighter is better on any race course
• An IRS is better than a solid rear axle (see Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, McClarren...)
• Floating rear calipers belong on a 1960 Muscle Car
• Continuous increases in RWHP offer diminishing returns
• Tire size is limited by wheel well size which limits traction
• Suspension and advanced electronic controls make the average driver faster
• The only series the ZR1 Vette runs has a rule limiting HP. The race version of the ZR1 is dialed down so the brand-x cars can compete.

I have extensive experience with the Mustang and Camaro. I know exactly what the strengths and weaknesses of both vehicles are. I see nothing in the current GT500 that would lead me to believe a huge increase in HP will make it a better car. Not a single one. From hands on experience and testing I can tell you the Brembo Mustang upgrade lasted all on 1.5 laps on a bone stock 5.0 before the rear brakes were gone. If we could have gone faster, the brakes would have been cooked sooner. Why is our experience so different than the magazines? Magazines are expected to keep the car in one piece. When we test we want to know where they break. It is a BIG difference.

This is in no way intended to degrade the current generation Mustang. Unlike the magazines, I find the Camaro a superior drive off the show room floor for three reasons.

The Camaro monocoque has less flex than the Mustang
The Camaro IRS is better than the Mustang 3 Link
The Camaro has better brakes

Do I enjoy my Mustang, oh yeah! Is my Mustang better than my current development ride (LPE L/28), nope but the ZL1 and the next GT500 won't match the L/28 either. I also understand this is a CAMARO forum and one of the few forums that welcomes brand-x owners. Pedders will be running the autocross at CamaroFEST III in Indy. There will be three classes.

Bone Stock
Modified
Super-Modified

Exhibition is where you'll find shop owned and mfg cars fighting for bragging rights, but no trophies. If you want to show off your driving skills and your Mustang you'll be welcome. That is about all I have to say on this subject other than to tip my hat and say -- WELL DONE CAMARO TEAM!

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

???? .... I'm not sure what you are trying to imply. Are you trying to imply that the GT500 is faster around the track than the Boss 302?

Motor Trend tested both at Laguna Seca and the Boss was faster around the track than the GT500 was by about 4 seconds.

Originally Posted by GT5Junkie

That's the 2010 GT500, with the iron block and no performance package.

The ONLY head to head between the GT500 and Boss that's ever been done was done by InsideLine and the GT500 won by about half a second despite being a heavily abused press car with a notchy tranny, and that's on a short track (1:25 laps).

Not sure what packages the GT500 had during that run but he is right GB.

http://www.insideline.com/ford/musta...ng_fe_111.html

[ffrcobra_65]

Ford!!!!! Release the Kraken already so we can see the comparo results and so we can go back to answering which CAI is best, or how much is my insurance going to be, or will I void my warranty, or what oil should I use....

[evolve]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

Ford!!!!! Release the Kraken already so we can see the comparo results and so we can go back to answering which CAI is best, or how much is my insurance going to be, or will I void my warranty, or what oil should I use....

Best questions ever!! lol. I think the biggest question, one that might want to be considered is: where can I compete?? (actual track events)

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Not sure what packages the GT500 had during that run but he is right GB.

http://www.insideline.com/ford/musta...ng_fe_111.html

It may be difficult to find a perfect apples to apples comparison of the GT500 and the Boss 302, and the results seem to vary from one comparison to the next. Regardless, from all of the information that I've been able to find it appears to me that the Boss 302 is a representative example of the best performing Mustang on the track.

If the Boss is, in fact, roughly 0.5 seconds slower than the GT500 on a track similar to Inde, then the ZL1 would still be roughly 2.0 seconds faster than the GT500 given the result at Inde.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

If the Boss is, in fact, roughly 0.5 seconds slower than the GT500 on a track similar to Inde, then the ZL1 would still be roughly 2.0 seconds faster than the GT500 given the result at Inde.

Exciting time's we are in!

[hairtrigger]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Interesting series of posts.







We'll start with what 2 seconds a lap translates to.

• INDY 500 6.6 minutes
• 24 Hour Rolex Daytona 24.03 minutes
• SCCA T1 2012 Championship 26 Seconds

2 Seconds a lap is an eternity on a road course.

Mustang vs Camaro

The rivalry is fantastic. I remember bumper stickers that use to read -- I would rather walk than ride in a Chevy / Ford. I hope the debate continues for another 100 years. On the other hand, there are some facts that get in the way of discourse.

• Lighter is better on any race course
• An IRS is better than a solid rear axle (see Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, McClarren...)
• Floating rear calipers belong on a 1960 Muscle Car
• Continuous increases in RWHP offer diminishing returns
• Tire size is limited by wheel well size which limits traction
• Suspension and advanced electronic controls make the average driver faster
• The only series the ZR1 Vette runs has a rule limiting HP. The race version of the ZR1 is dialed down so the brand-x cars can compete.

I have extensive experience with the Mustang and Camaro. I know exactly what the strengths and weaknesses of both vehicles are. I see nothing in the current GT500 that would lead me to believe a huge increase in HP will make it a better car. Not a single one. From hands on experience and testing I can tell you the Brembo Mustang upgrade lasted all on 1.5 laps on a bone stock 5.0 before the rear brakes were gone. If we could have gone faster, the brakes would have been cooked sooner. Why is our experience so different than the magazines? Magazines are expected to keep the car in one piece. When we test we want to know where they break. It is a BIG difference.

This is in no way intended to degrade the current generation Mustang. Unlike the magazines, I find the Camaro a superior drive off the show room floor for three reasons.

The Camaro monocoque has less flex than the Mustang
The Camaro IRS is better than the Mustang 3 Link
The Camaro has better brakes

Do I enjoy my Mustang, oh yeah! Is my Mustang better than my current development ride (LPE L/28), nope but the ZL1 and the next GT500 won't match the L/28 either. I also understand this is a CAMARO forum and one of the few forums that welcomes brand-x owners. Pedders will be running the autocross at CamaroFEST III in Indy. There will be three classes.

Bone Stock
Modified
Super-Modified

Exhibition is where you'll find shop owned and mfg cars fighting for bragging rights, but no trophies. If you want to show off your driving skills and your Mustang you'll be welcome. That is about all I have to say on this subject other than to tip my hat and say -- WELL DONE CAMARO TEAM!

Thank You!!
Finally someone has addressed all concerns in this thread in a concise point form with accurate professional information.

2 seconds is an eternity. The people I race with are within .5 sec in the first 15 and within .1 in the first 5 and in the hundredths in the top 3.
Two seconds would exclude you from the field unless you placed top 3 in the LCQ.

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by hairtrigger

Thank You!!
Finally someone has addressed all concerns in this thread in a concise point form with accurate professional information.

2 seconds is an eternity. The people I race with are within .5 sec in the first 15 and within .1 in the first 5 and in the hundredths in the top 3.
Two seconds would exclude you from the field unless you placed top 3 in the LCQ.

So which racing series are we going to find the zl1 in? Which sanctioned events?