"Our" Economy

[rlg3]

Originally Posted by SdustinK

how's that true when on that podcast there were two people from gm saying the camaro will still go in production on feb 16

Have you read a paper or seen the tv???? GM will be bankrupt before production of the camaro if they do not get government help. There will be no camaro without government help matter of fact there may be no GM without government help. Fbodfather, posted this on another page, where he also said read a paper. GM is trying to just survive right now, trying to make it another couple months

fbodfather
Senior Member



Drives: Camaros................
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Grosse Pointe Farms, MI (suburban Detroit)
Posts: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69
For GM to survive this ballbusting economy


you got that right.

Right now we're looking to preserve future programs. While we hear you, it's crucial that we make it thru the next several months.

[KILLER74Z28]

Originally Posted by nickspohn

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

This is such a true statement in these turmoil times... Everyone and I mean everyone needs to thoroughly examine this statement…

[SdustinK]

well it's gm's fault for bring bankrupt. Like I said before only diehard American car lovers. Like American cars. The general public do not find American cars reliable. They all say it's cheap plastic car. Look at the zr1. Or z06 those cars do not look like 100'000 dollar cars. No matter the size of their engine and power

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by rlg3

Have you read a paper or seen the tv???? GM will be bankrupt before production of the camaro if they do not get government help. There will be no camaro without government help matter of fact there may be no GM without government help.

Bankruptcy is not the end of a business. Multiple airlines operating today at one point operated under bankruptcy protection. GM probably won't do as well as the airlines without serious government involvement.

It's also worth nothing that foreign government routinely invest in their industries to give them an edge. Japan, for instance, invested in Toyota to help it produce a variety of products.

[rlg3]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

Bankruptcy is not the end of a business. Multiple airlines operating today at one point operated under bankruptcy protection. GM probably won't do as well as the airlines without serious government involvement.

It's also worth nothing that foreign government routinely invest in their industries to give them an edge. Japan, for instance, invested in Toyota to help it produce a variety of products.

Your right, however when companies emerge for bankruptcy, there are huge cutbacks things are eliminated. Many airlines have done it and the have stopped flying in and out of certain cities, expansion is stopped, and almost all future plans are halted. So if GM goes into the bankruptcy the idea that the Camaro production may not begin is not a stretch, by any means.
Your also right about Japan, however it has not been a popular idea here in America, and would represent a major shift that has been fought against by many "free marketers"

[zpsyx9]

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

It's GM's fault, period. People can go around pointing fingers, but every economy is suffering, including European and Japanese.

I'm no ricer fan, I own two Camaros. This crap that it's somehow someone else's fault is insane though. GM lost almost $39 BILLION in 2007, and I'm sure they lost even more this year. They would have had to sell almost 2 million more $20,000 cars just to break even! Saying they're "in trouble" is an understatement. They're going to have to do something about their spending, there's no way they're going to make up that difference in sales.

The gas prices are going down, so hopefully the Camaro sales will help out. I don't know the sales projections though, hopefully they're planning on selling a couple million...

[toesuf94]

I love all of the American Car Haters in the world. I have owned both Japanese and German cars, and can tell you that the Germans loved to be worked on, and the Japanese cars, while trouble free, were the most boring, souless, tinny junky cars I have ever had the displeasure of owning. I now own several GM cars, all of them purring along just fine. My 2007 Tahoe LT3 is one of the best cars we have owned - EVER. Our XLR is great to look at and fun to drive. The Corvette is such a sweet car with the LS1 thumping under the hood...smooth is not enough of a word to describe that car. In 23 years of driving, NOT ONE of my GM cars failed to get me to or from where I was going. In over 50 years of driving, my father can say the same thing. We left GM when we lost our choices of RWD cars. We dabbled in BMW and found the cars to be fun to drive, and lots of $$$ to maintain. And frankly, the build quality sucked on the minor stuff you should NEVER worry about in cars that cost that much - lenses falling off, interior trim falling off repeatedly - stuff that has never happened in my GM's costing a third or less of what we paid for the BMW.

So buy a GM car, they ARE as good or better then the imports, and frankly, you will be saving YOUR COUNTRY...which is truly the important thing to do right now. I will be ordering my Camaro when I can sit in one and drive one. Same goes for my dad. He wants a replica of BLACK...the XLR will be leaving for the two RS/SS coupes we plan to order. We have also decided to flip our fleet of trucks early here at the office to 'try' and help GM move some inventory. GM will come back strong IF WE AS CONSUMERS EMBRACE THEM AS OUR OWN AGAIN. But really, it is UP TO US to help GM.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by rlg3

Your right, however when companies emerge for bankruptcy, there are huge cutbacks things are eliminated. Many airlines have done it and the have stopped flying in and out of certain cities, expansion is stopped, and almost all future plans are halted. So if GM goes into the bankruptcy the idea that the Camaro production may not begin is not a stretch, by any means.
Your also right about Japan, however it has not been a popular idea here in America, and would represent a major shift that has been fought against by many "free marketers"

GM won't be the same after this market scare. We're looking at major changes within the company. SUVs will have lower production. Trucks will be harder to find. Small cars will take over. None of those represent a bad thing, necessarily. It just means that GM will be more careful about following the needs of the market.

I disagree that the Camaro won't make production. There has been enough demand for it to be successful. I wouldn't be surprised if other platforms became limited or got cancelled. Camaro production numbers would probably go down, but that's all I can see happening.

I am continually frustrated with the ideal that we can let the market work itself out. While the global market usually does that to some extent, we have to factor in the fact that other countries attempt to influence the market in their favor, so we have to do the same. If we don't have any big companies in the market, we can say farewell to American economic and political hegemony. We have to be a little protectionist. The rest of the world is. If we keep believing that the market will fix itself, it will fix itself in the favor of those who manipulate it.

[Camaro_Corvette]

Wait, The economy is in trouble??? Holy Sh**!

[Hesh]

I like you to point out how its GM's fault. They along with most automakers run through quite a bit of money quarterly. They went with what the market demanded, SUV's. Now with everyone jumping on the "save the world " kick the high gas using SUV's are not wanted as much and something better on gas is. Thus the ebb and flow of the market. They were losing money yes, but due to the change of what was wanted they have to reset there goals of what to produce more of. The economy taking a major shite did alot of damage to everyone, including the Big 3. So yes everyone is to blame. From the a-holes lining thier pockets with easy money on bad morgage loans, us for demanding the gas guzzlers...god i love these cars tho, and other comapnies for cooking the books and just outright scaming people. Its not just a small group that is to blame. We as a country are to blame. So stop pointing fingers and as a group accept part of the blame. We did this to ourselves now time to get ourselves out of it. Stop crying and do something to help not just bitch about it.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by zpsyx9

They're going to have to do something about their spending, there's no way they're going to make up that difference in sales.

And that's the key...it's not as much a matter of spending (still a good point, though), as it is a matter of INCOME. 30%+ dump in sales this year alone. That's massive...in ONE year....

Originally Posted by The_Blur

If we keep believing that the market will fix itself, it will fix itself in the favor of those who manipulate it.

[rlg3]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

GM won't be the same after this market scare. We're looking at major changes within the company. SUVs will have lower production. Trucks will be harder to find. Small cars will take over. None of those represent a bad thing, necessarily. It just means that GM will be more careful about following the needs of the market.

I disagree that the Camaro won't make production. There has been enough demand for it to be successful. I wouldn't be surprised if other platforms became limited or got cancelled. Camaro production numbers would probably go down, but that's all I can see happening.

I am continually frustrated with the ideal that we can let the market work itself out. While the global market usually does that to some extent, we have to factor in the fact that other countries attempt to influence the market in their favor, so we have to do the same. If we don't have any big companies in the market, we can say farewell to American economic and political hegemony. We have to be a little protectionist. The rest of the world is. If we keep believing that the market will fix itself, it will fix itself in the favor of those who manipulate it.

I'm not saying the camaro wont make production I am saying that we should stop acting like it is a sure thing that it will make production clearly the Camaro is up in the air like all of GM is up in the air. Its also clear that they intend to make the car if they can.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by rlg3

I'm not saying the camaro wont make production I am saying that we should stop acting like it is a sure thing that it will make production clearly the Camaro is up in the air like all of GM is up in the air. Its also clear that they intend to make the car if they can.

It isn't a sure thing as we like to imagine it. We have to make sure that GM survives first.

[rayhawk]

Originally Posted by rlg3

I agree with alot of what your saying except blaming the unions. The suits at the big three singed those contracts. Just like they signed off on cars for years that were not up to snuff damaging the Big 3 reputation and now when they offer many top quality cars and trucks they are living under a bad reputation. At the end of the day all of the "mistakes" you point out are a fault of their leadership not the unions, not the buyers, and not the government.

It is the unions fault. American companies survive despite the unions (and there are fewer every year). The automakers were forced into those bad deals, by not being able to hire people that would be willing to work for much less compensation. Do other companies hire the most expensive workers? How could you compete if you have to pay twice what your competitor pays? And what if the government restricted your company from hiring anyone you want, and said you can only hire people from one select group, which happens to demand higher pay regardless of performance?