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Old 03-29-2011, 04:10 AM   #141
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... have you been in either the military or a union? I keep hearing from everyone who doesn't pay one red cent of how unions are greedy. Over my lifetime in the steelworkers, I will give over 60k dollars to help the fight for wages, benefits, and safety from companies, who would do everything they could to pay next to nothing. To buy lobbyists to help put tarrifs on underpriced goods coming to our country. And all I hear from non union workers is how greedy I am. How much have you paid to help keep better wages for our families?


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Old 03-29-2011, 08:07 AM   #142
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The union didn't do anything wrong.
This kind of mentality is one of the reasons GM had to file ch. 11......

No matter what the contracts were between Allied and GM, an employee does not have the right to hold company property hostage. In the real world they would be terminated immediately for such actions, and no lawsuit would stand up in their favor.

Another reason why unions are completely useless, wastefull, and destructive to production.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:20 AM   #143
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How much have you paid to help keep better wages for our families?
WOW! You are a unions dream worker. You have given a union 60K to protect you from the big bad companies? Thank god more and more people are seeing this scam and unions are going by the wayside.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:25 AM   #144
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My finger's starting to twitch.......


I'm still trying to catch up in this thread, but this was all that came to my mind.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:43 AM   #145
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I find it odd and disturbing that so many have decided that this is a union issue. The union is not holding the cars hostage. In fact the employees are the ones caught in the middle of the battle. This is between Allied and GM and its not any drivers fault. Cost have gone up for trucking due to fuel and other related costs and Allied simply cannot transport vehicles at a profitable level. They had a contract with GM. They chose to try a bad idea by making the drivers eat the loss. That did not work. They then chose to try another bad idea. To force GM to pay the difference. GM said wait a second. We have a contract that you will deliver cars at $x.xx price.

Think about this and decide how you would react. Ok lets say Gm paid the difference on cars already built. Instead of 995 delivery it went to 1200. Would you be willing to pay the difference after you already negotiated your purchase. If so then pipe right up and let GM know that you are willing to pay way more for shipping and delivery costs. If not then stand behind GM...give them a chance to resource the deliveries and to resolve the auto hostage situation the only way they can. In court today...Relax everyone...its all going to be ok in the long run.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:46 AM   #146
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I stand behind GM, way behind, thankfully.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:03 AM   #147
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Don't worry. When the unions die. You'll be paid squat, and maybe you could hop the border, and grab one of those good paying Mexican jobs... artificially high? I'm not artificially grtting paid. And if you think you can keep up on my 12 hour shift... come try! Unions also make for safe work places also. Funny, I bet half the people in these forums are paid well enough to buy a CAMARO, because of the sweat of union workers, because if it wasn't for us, there would be no competition because everyone would be paid like a third world country. And there would be no OSHA, and children would work for pennies. But you drive a 40k car made by union workers, who maybe barely afford the products they make. Lazy bastards, right? O ya, and my union dues go to help fight cheap products being brought over from other country, and make it a fair wage for them too. What do your dues go for?
As a former union worker I FIGURED OUT that my dues were nothing more than $$ to the Democrats. You're nothing more than a money raising tool for politicians. I can't believe you guys have not figured out how the UNION is screwing you.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:27 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by jeff4946 View Post
... have you been in either the military or a union? I keep hearing from everyone who doesn't pay one red cent of how unions are greedy. Over my lifetime in the steelworkers, I will give over 60k dollars to help the fight for wages, benefits, and safety from companies, who would do everything they could to pay next to nothing. To buy lobbyists to help put tarrifs on underpriced goods coming to our country. And all I hear from non union workers is how greedy I am. How much have you paid to help keep better wages for our families?
I work for a strict non-unionized steel company. Just like the integrated mill dinosaurs, that idea is living in the past. Too bad the unions created their own demise in the steel industry. They would rather ruin the businesses that are trying to keep American workers working, rather than be competitive with foreign steel.

Market-based economy keeps them from paying you crap wages, not your union. Besides muddying waters and trying to make a buck off the "average Joe", Unions dont do anything to support the workers.

They also are the indirect reason why Allied is holding these cars hostage. The union created the ripple effect of Allied looking for money from their customer because the union put them in between the rock and a hard place.

And now hard working (hard saving!) Americans are going to have to wait on their sweet Camaros and Silverados (which, the trucks, were prob being used for work purposes!) all because of one reason...

I dont contribute to a union and I feel my company pays me a fair wage...because they know I'll go elsewhere if they didntl....BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A MARKET BASED ECONOMY!! This isnt China or Russia, I get to choose where I want to work and there are fair working conditions.

But either way Allied needs to let those cars go. Haul more cars and they'll make up the difference over time...unless the union keeps demanding more money...
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:38 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by 2010 SS RS View Post
I find it odd and disturbing that so many have decided that this is a union issue. The union is not holding the cars hostage. In fact the employees are the ones caught in the middle of the battle. This is between Allied and GM and its not any drivers fault. Cost have gone up for trucking due to fuel and other related costs and Allied simply cannot transport vehicles at a profitable level. They had a contract with GM. They chose to try a bad idea by making the drivers eat the loss. That did not work. They then chose to try another bad idea. To force GM to pay the difference. GM said wait a second. We have a contract that you will deliver cars at $x.xx price.

Think about this and decide how you would react. Ok lets say Gm paid the difference on cars already built. Instead of 995 delivery it went to 1200. Would you be willing to pay the difference after you already negotiated your purchase. If so then pipe right up and let GM know that you are willing to pay way more for shipping and delivery costs. If not then stand behind GM...give them a chance to resource the deliveries and to resolve the auto hostage situation the only way they can. In court today...Relax everyone...its all going to be ok in the long run.
I will agree with you that rising fuel cost during the last 3-4mo ignited this problem. However a company in the transportation industry should be better prepared to handle this factor of their business; just like GM has had to handle rising steel costs to make their cars. Poor decision making at Allied coupled with union mumbo-jumbo has brought this issue to the stage its at.

What I find odd and disturbing is that this transportation company decided to try something so bold. And hopefully most of these cars are bought and paid for (by the dealerships) as this will help release product to the rightful owner. Also, FOB contract details will play a part. FOB the plant and GM could have some litigation to go through. FOB destination and GM could cut through this crap quicker...
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:08 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by stand-al0ne View Post
I work for a strict non-unionized steel company. Just like the integrated mill dinosaurs, that idea is living in the past. Too bad the unions created their own demise in the steel industry. They would rather ruin the businesses that are trying to keep American workers working, rather than be competitive with foreign steel.

Market-based economy keeps them from paying you crap wages, not your union. Besides muddying waters and trying to make a buck off the "average Joe", Unions dont do anything to support the workers.

They also are the indirect reason why Allied is holding these cars hostage. The union created the ripple effect of Allied looking for money from their customer because the union put them in between the rock and a hard place.

And now hard working (hard saving!) Americans are going to have to wait on their sweet Camaros and Silverados (which, the trucks, were prob being used for work purposes!) all because of one reason...

I dont contribute to a union and I feel my company pays me a fair wage...because they know I'll go elsewhere if they didntl....BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A MARKET BASED ECONOMY!! This isnt China or Russia, I get to choose where I want to work and there are fair working conditions.

But either way Allied needs to let those cars go. Haul more cars and they'll make up the difference over time...unless the union keeps demanding more money...
I do not agree with the ripple effect. The union contract was known and agreed upon long before Allied ever forged a contract with GM. They did not raise the price. They reacted when Allied paid short 20% without any notice..just arbitrarly paid short. The union also told drivers if they were loaded to deliver what was on the truck and not to hold any car hostage.

I am not saying I am a union guy or supporter even for that matter...I am an independent business man. But this whole situation has nothing to do with the Union and I find it frustrating to see folks use this horrible situation to spew political feelings when they are totally unrelated. Due to this entire situation there are a bunch of Americans with no work...no loads...and a bunch of folks with no cars. Belly aching about unrelated issues just is not going anywhere here. We might as well be blaming this all on the NFL players union as it is just as involved and responsible.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:25 AM   #151
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The union is not holding the cars hostage! Guys, read the thread. The company has decided to hold the cars until GM and Chrysler pay extra. Where does the union come into play? I am not the biggest fan of unions, especially after the UAW wanted a raise while GM was going into restructuring. The fact that a union is involved and everyone wants to blame them is remarkable. The union is under an existing contract to get paid a certain way. That was fine until gas prices ate into the company's bottom line, and the guys behind a desk saw their commissions and bonuses at risk. We're so eager to see working people take a hit like we did—and I say we because I've taken a huge hit—that we forget about the guys still making at least 6 figures. There are a lot more guys driving trucks than people telling those guys where to go, but you'd be shocked to find out how much an executive makes even when the company is losing money.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:44 AM   #152
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Lets say, would you rather get 20% cut OR loose your jobs. Obviously, after all these cars that's being held hostage comes back. Chevy and Chrysler will change the hauler company. Would that hauler fire some people? we'll i believe so if they don't have any big client like GM or Chrysler paying them. From what I understand from the article is that. The hauler company ask for more money from chevy and chrysler, because of the gas price. Which make sense, but why would you held cars that've been bought and paid for??. Wouldn't that technically stealing? if the owner of that car have the tittle of the car. can they owner sue them? Hm... something to think about.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:35 AM   #153
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I don't think it has much to do about unions. Much of the trucking industry is unionized, been like that for decades, will be like that for decades... In my travels, I've met a lot of truck drivers, have a couple of cousins that are truck drivers... all stand up guys just working hard for a living.

The real issue is someone else's property locked up as bargaining blackmail.
The decision to do that happens at the top of the company's executives.

Some might call that extortion, racketeering... GM should have called the FBI on day 1.

Seems to me what they are doing would be considered extortion and interfering with commerce... both below in the legal definition of racketeering.



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Old 03-29-2011, 11:42 AM   #154
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Let those inocent Camaro SS cars go! They did not do anything to deserve this!
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