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Old 04-11-2009, 09:03 PM   #113
GTAHVIT
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OK, I've read every single post in this thread.

I must say that this has largely been a productive conversation.

So let me say a few things.

One: GM has zero control of what dealers do with the cars they are allocated.

Two: If you don't like a dealer's sales practices, lack of knowledge, inability to cooperate, or just lack of plain ol' professionalism then walk. Trust me, the worst thing you can do to a dealer is not buy their product and tell other people why they should not do business there.

Three: This kind of situation is precisely why we don't endorse dealers here at Camaro5. All it takes is one member to have a bad experience with an "endorsed" dealer and Camaro5 now has to take a stance either for the dealer or for the member. Imagine what that thread would be like on this site...

Four: In truth, we see dealer participation on this site as a constant problem. One dealer has been fired, possibly a second. One dealer caused a HEEEEUUUUUUGGE. Controversy that later turned out to be completely the opposite of what they claimed. We've had Dealers argue with eachother publicly on the boards. We had another dealer post what GM considered proprietary in formation in which we had to jump through many hoops to insure GM didn't sick the lawyers on us. We've even had a dealer, who is a member here, bad mouth Camaro5 on another site... And the list goes on and on

Five: The benefit of having dealers here is obvious. They provide us real information that is extremely valuable to our members and that offsets, at least partially, the complications that arise from having many of them here.

Six: Make no mistake, Every single dealer here is trying to make money. Every one. Luckily for our members, the information on this site has made us the most informed consumers any dealer has had to deal with. Good for us, bad for them. You are responsible not to let any dealer rip you off. Refer to number two in this list. If you even smell something that literally doesn't add up. Get up, and walk out or hang up the phone. Call the manager and tell them why you won't do business with them and go somewhere else. But, do not get sucked in to the "Come on back in" line. (Sorry Dan) But this is the worst thing you can do with a dealer. You, the consumers, are the only ones that can hold a dealer accountable for their inability to meet your needs. Once you make up your mind to walk, you have to stick with that and go some where else.

That's about all I can think of. I'm not gonna close this as everyone has heeded our warning and played nice. Disagreed? For sure. But been respectful in the process.

Keep it that way or let it die.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:26 PM   #114
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I am certainly in the minority here, but I have no problem with the dealer getting whatever they can for whatever they are selling. This is capitalism at its finest folks. Every transaction takes two parties. You don't want to pay, don't bid, don't buy.

I was never personally involved with any conversations about the pre-order process so I can't comment on whether or not the salesmen were lying or not. I for one would have preferred they simply told prospective buyers, yes we are getting cars, we are not selling for MSRP instead we are going to put them on Ebay. Ok, done deal, thanks for being honest and no hard feelings.

If anyone here was selling a car privately, would you honestly accept $20k if you really thought you could get $30k from someone else? My hope is no you wouldn't.

Also don't forget he has no guaranteed sale for over MSRP. The Camaro, as sought after and as anticipated as it is, will not be a limited production vehicle. There is a chance people will be "smart" with their money and wait until they can go into a dealer and make a deal. Plus, with an online auction, he has to deal with the potential of deadbeat bidders, sob stories about someone's kids bidding, people who have nothing better to do than bid items up with no intentions of buying etc.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:31 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by SALISBURYCHEVROLET View Post
Chevy he said that he makes 5-10 percent..WOW......Not car dealers. I am starting to lose hope..lol Dan
We already know the holdback is 3% on the camaro, plus whatever else is stacked over the invoice dont act like you are giving the cars away.
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Old 04-11-2009, 10:00 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by gtahvit View Post
OK, I've read every single post in this thread.

I must say that this has largely been a productive conversation.

So let me say a few things.

One: GM has zero control of what dealers do with the cars they are allocated.

Two: If you don't like a dealer's sales practices, lack of knowledge, inability to cooperate, or just lack of plain ol' professionalism then walk. Trust me, the worst thing you can do to a dealer is not buy their product and tell other people why they should not do business there.

Three: This kind of situation is precisely why we don't endorse dealers here at Camaro5. All it takes is one member to have a bad experience with an "endorsed" dealer and Camaro5 now has to take a stance either for the dealer or for the member. Imagine what that thread would be like on this site...

Four: In truth, we see dealer participation on this site as a constant problem. One dealer has been fired, possibly a second. One dealer caused a HEEEEUUUUUUGGE. Controversy that later turned out to be completely the opposite of what they claimed. We've had Dealers argue with eachother publicly on the boards. We had another dealer post what GM considered proprietary in formation in which we had to jump through many hoops to insure GM didn't sick the lawyers on us. We've even had a dealer, who is a member here, bad mouth Camaro5 on another site... And the list goes on and on

Five: The benefit of having dealers here is obvious. They provide us real information that is extremely valuable to our members and that offsets, at least partially, the complications that arise from having many of them here.

Six: Make no mistake, Every single dealer here is trying to make money. Every one. Luckily for our members, the information on this site has made us the most informed consumers any dealer has had to deal with. Good for us, bad for them. You are responsible not to let any dealer rip you off. Refer to number two in this list. If you even smell something that literally doesn't add up. Get up, and walk out or hang up the phone. Call the manager and tell them why you won't do business with them and go somewhere else. But, do not get sucked in to the "Come on back in" line. (Sorry Dan) But this is the worst thing you can do with a dealer. You, the consumers, are the only ones that can hold a dealer accountable for their inability to meet your needs. Once you make up your mind to walk, you have to stick with that and go some where else.

That's about all I can think of. I'm not gonna close this as everyone has heeded our warning and played nice. Disagreed? For sure. But been respectful in the process.

Keep it that way or let it die.

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Old 04-11-2009, 10:27 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by gtahvit View Post
Three: This kind of situation is precisely why we don't endorse dealers here at Camaro5. All it takes is one member to have a bad experience with an "endorsed" dealer and Camaro5 now has to take a stance either for the dealer or for the member. Imagine what that thread would be like on this site...
Ah, but this is where the forum could have made money. If the dealers want to pay to advertise, they can

Anywho I take part in many audio/video forums. There are few rules in a forum to maintain FULL respect from members, Moderators, and forum owners.

"Never over step your bounds"
"Never post info that is not 100% accurate"
"Never argue with anyone"
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Old 04-11-2009, 11:17 PM   #118
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Ebay motors should have a rule no car in posession then no Ad.

They have done that with some items like Intel CPU's when they where hot item.
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Old 04-11-2009, 11:51 PM   #119
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Angelina. I personally do not have a Camaro. I had to choose a model when I joined the forum. See again an assumption on your part.
Dan

Dan,

We all had to "choose" what we drive. I did not assume...it is what you have as the vehicle you drive. Why not just put what you really drive in that case.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:14 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtahvit View Post
OK, I've read every single post in this thread.

I must say that this has largely been a productive conversation.

So let me say a few things.

One: GM has zero control of what dealers do with the cars they are allocated.

Two: If you don't like a dealer's sales practices, lack of knowledge, inability to cooperate, or just lack of plain ol' professionalism then walk. Trust me, the worst thing you can do to a dealer is not buy their product and tell other people why they should not do business there.

Three: This kind of situation is precisely why we don't endorse dealers here at Camaro5. All it takes is one member to have a bad experience with an "endorsed" dealer and Camaro5 now has to take a stance either for the dealer or for the member. Imagine what that thread would be like on this site...

Four: In truth, we see dealer participation on this site as a constant problem. One dealer has been fired, possibly a second. One dealer caused a HEEEEUUUUUUGGE. Controversy that later turned out to be completely the opposite of what they claimed. We've had Dealers argue with eachother publicly on the boards. We had another dealer post what GM considered proprietary in formation in which we had to jump through many hoops to insure GM didn't sick the lawyers on us. We've even had a dealer, who is a member here, bad mouth Camaro5 on another site... And the list goes on and on

Five: The benefit of having dealers here is obvious. They provide us real information that is extremely valuable to our members and that offsets, at least partially, the complications that arise from having many of them here.

Six: Make no mistake, Every single dealer here is trying to make money. Every one. Luckily for our members, the information on this site has made us the most informed consumers any dealer has had to deal with. Good for us, bad for them. You are responsible not to let any dealer rip you off. Refer to number two in this list. If you even smell something that literally doesn't add up. Get up, and walk out or hang up the phone. Call the manager and tell them why you won't do business with them and go somewhere else. But, do not get sucked in to the "Come on back in" line. (Sorry Dan) But this is the worst thing you can do with a dealer. You, the consumers, are the only ones that can hold a dealer accountable for their inability to meet your needs. Once you make up your mind to walk, you have to stick with that and go some where else.

That's about all I can think of. I'm not gonna close this as everyone has heeded our warning and played nice. Disagreed? For sure. But been respectful in the process.

Keep it that way or let it die.
well put ...
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:16 AM   #121
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Really dealer do whay they think is best for their dealership. I'm just confused about him saying he would take deposits from people and not be able to get the car.
If you are only getting 2 a month than you only take 2 deposits. Set it out from the beginning how many months they probably will be waiting and leave it at that. My dealer said point blank he has an allotment of 2 and I'd be the second. So I acted. I didn't even ask how long it would take...why because I wanted it and figured it probably was going to be a long wait. Now the time he told me I might wait about 8 weeks might be right on. But if that has to be longer it's up to me to deside if I want to wait. I don't however expect him to come back and say he can't get the Camaro at all.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:22 AM   #122
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Dan,

We all had to "choose" what we drive. I did not assume...it is what you have as the vehicle you drive. Why not just put what you really drive in that case.


That's why I hate walking into a dealership, you never know what kind of crap they are going to spew.

This forum is doing a great service to the customer. Now we know what dealers to buy from and which ones to avoid.

Last edited by GTAHVIT; 04-12-2009 at 12:54 AM. Reason: No personal attacks.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:32 AM   #123
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I'm not sure the real issue here is that it's one dealer that's asking more than MSRP.

It's one dealer that has posted a fraudulent auction using an incorrect VIN and stating a guaranteed delivery date when all information indicates that specific dates are currently unavailable...especially for cars that have yet to even roll out the factory door.

Greed is on thing.

Dishonesty is an entirely different animal.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:35 AM   #124
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Hi. I'm new here.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:57 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by ClevelandPlasma View Post
Ah, but this is where the forum could have made money. If the dealers want to pay to advertise, they can
Anywho I take part in many audio/video forums. There are few rules in a forum to maintain FULL respect from members, Moderators, and forum owners.

"Never over step your bounds"
"Never post info that is not 100% accurate"
"Never argue with anyone"

In this case, it's not about money. Tran has chosen to provide this to all of you becasue he's truly passionate about the Camaro

I guess that's his form of charity...

Pretty damn cool if you ask me.




BTW: I may need to buy a 30" 1080p LCD... Know anyone that can help me out??
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:00 AM   #126
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How did we go from idiots selling cars they don't even have improperly on ebay to size contest of LCD displays?

lol...

Consensus that Ebay can suck and in this case of the ghost Camaro's it qualifies as some suckage?

Yes / No vote.
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