1LE Rear Tire Size

[Cody6.2]

Originally Posted by Dropspeed

Pretty sure you stated you owned more cars than me to prove a self worth of some sort or a sign of knowledge???....I just retorted with my twisted sense of humor. So sorry it stung a little.

Stung a little, it made me laugh.

Point being that things that change handling characteristics apply to more than just a 1LE. And that one wouldn't need a 1LE to explain or clarify a tires effect on these charateristics.



I don't read anything and believe it. I look at data on a road course acquired in my personal vehicles because that is the only thing that matters to me as the street and dyno will yield different results.

Well you haven't done a whole lot more than site other peoples explinations so far. And even then that still doesn't effect the simple facts I stated.


Oh you got me!...If I say you win will you leave? PS: I never said you were ignorant....I said you were bitter, which I stand behind.

Apparently me and the rest of the world have a different definition of the term bitter.


We can skip past all of the above and go straight for some good old fashion facts.

Have you owned a 1LE?
Have you driven a 1LE on a track?

I will assume no to both as you stated you owned a 45th and then tried to build or were going to build something using factory parts and then pulled the plug.

My massive build consited of a GMPP axle-back.

You (and I) both know that no matter how many engineers or sales people say something will work on paper or in theory that it does not always translate into the real world. In this case, the 285 tire set-up works on the 1LE in stock form. There is not much left to argue if it works.

No matter what you wish to believe tunning a cars handling by stretching tires is a piss poor way of doing things.

Or this.

[Cody6.2]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

So you get angry when you have no facts. The thread was an inquiry into using a larger tire on the rear.

Yes some are calling it stretched, however according to the tire charts an 11" wheel is not considered stretching for this tire size.

I've stated enough "facts". Some people just cannot be enlightened.

Hey look you read the specs for this tire size.

I went outside and looked at one.

[Cody6.2]

Originally Posted by Bozz1LE

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...o-2013-page-10

I think the point that the 1LE is in front of the Viper SRT10 and the Porsche 911 GT3 and other much more expensive kinda leads me to believe that the engineers did some testing and were on to something.

Also it beat the Boss 302 Laguna Seca and the 2011 GT500 as well... goes to show even if Ford throw handling and more power at a car it still cant handle worth a shit.

Well due to the fact that they had to fine tun by stretching tires I don't know if they've done a whole lot. It's no secret that big sticky tires do amazing things. And like I said there is no debate that Mustangs from V6's to GT500's are under-tired. With that being said no one is debating true handling abilities but rather the methods being used.


Do 1LE's handle, sure.

Is it silly to stretch a tire rather than tune the chassis to most, yes.

[natmad]

"piss poor engineering" Cody 6.2

The 1LE package was designed to make the LS3 equiped Camaro faster than the Mustang BOSS 302 Laguna Seca around a track even though the Mustang is lighter, more powerful, and has R compound tire as stated earlier.

Chevy engineers were able to accomplish this using available parts from the ZL1, and kept the sticker price of the 1LE several thousand dollars less than the STANDARD Boss302.

This is not an example of "piss poor engineering".

Your first post in this thread was "umm... no..." follow by subsequent posts that are more argumentative than informational.

If a square setup or 305's on the rear handled better and was faster around the track, then the 1LE package would be so equipped.

It appears YOU are the only poster in this thread that thinks YOU know better than the engineers responsible for bringing this package to market.

I try to never single anyone out, but "piss poor engineering" was just too much.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Bozz1LE

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...o-2013-page-10

I think the point that the 1LE is in front of the Viper SRT10 and the Porsche 911 GT3 and other much more expensive kinda leads me to believe that the engineers did some testing and were on to something.

Also it beat the Boss 302 Laguna Seca and the 2011 GT500 as well... goes to show even if Ford throw handling and more power at a car it still cant handle worth a shit.

It's the weak chassis and age old rear-axle design.

[2cnd chance]

Changing directions, Did the OP decide to stay with the 285's or go with 305's for the rear of his 1LE? If upping to 305's Pete from Pedders has a wealth of knowledge.

[Ajdin@A2BMotorsport]

How is a Boss 302 LS under-tired... it has tires that are even better than a Supercar G2's... also tecnically the 1LE is to compete with the Mustang GT Track Pack (and the 1LE owns the GT Track)... the natural competitor for the Mustang "Track Car" Boss 302 LS if you can consider it that is the Z28 which would make any mustang its bitch around the track, hell it would make ANY FORD its bitch around the track.

[Ajdin@A2BMotorsport]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

It's the weak chassis and age old rear-axle design.

Yeah I agree with you. I was actually about to buy a Boss 302 LS, after 1 drive I realized how bad the LRA is and ordered my 1LE the next day without even driving it and could be happier.

[Firefighter]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Changing directions, Did the OP decide to stay with the 285's or go with 305's for the rear of his 1LE? If upping to 305's Pete from Pedders has a wealth of knowledge.

IDK but that is the direction I'm going to go. I will add about 100 rwhp and hopefully close to that in rwtq. Plus to me the rear wheels are vulnerable to curb scrubbing. The rim protector gets stretched and turned out. A 305 would not be like that.

I will make all the recommended improvements from Pedders.

That being said the 1LE handles incredibly well and needs very few improvements.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Cody6.2

The same engineers also said the larger lower grille on the 2014 let more air in. Yet if you actually look at it the actual opening is the same if not smaller than the 2010-2013.

I guarantee if you put a ZL1 rear tire on a 1LE that handling would be better not worse.

Gaining rear tire grip brings with it a little more understeer (because the front tires are now over-matched). This does not equal "better handling".

If you then crutch the understeerish tire size stagger with oversteerish suspension tuning, the car becomes a little harder to hold at the limit - the transition from understeer to oversteer happens a little more abruptly. A shortcoming of the Boss 302 Mustangs in either LS or non-LS trim, actually.

The 1LE's wheel width stagger without a tire size stagger allows a little understeer from slip angle management rather than simply throwing away grip from the heavy end of the car (that arguably needs it more).


On edit, I'd need to see the actual square inch measurements for that area thing. Appearances and photographic angles can be deceiving.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Arodr395

Are the rear tires on the 1LE wide enough? Because I know in certain photos the rear tires look too skinny.

You simply aren't used to seeing tires that are mounted on wheels out at the max recommended width.

They won't have the bulgy-sidewall appearance that you are more accustomed to seeing, and in a handling-oriented application you wouldn't want them to (it would mean that you left too many easy-pickings on the table). 35 profile tires aren't supposed to look bulgy even on measuring width wheels.

Yes, it is a mild stretch as compared to mounting the same tire on its "measuring width" wheel. "Stretch" is a bad word only when it's applied to the Euro-crazies who attempt mounting tires on wheels well in excess of max recommended.

Even half an inch past max recommended is not "well in excess", and is entirely do-able as long as you don't mind a harder ride. My experience-based opinion, with a little backing.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Arodr395

If this is true then why didn't they do the same on the Z28?

They basically did just that. Max-width wheel for 305/30 out back, measuring width wheel for the same size up front.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Cody6.2

Laughed about what the fact that you're too stupid to do anything but quote engineers?

I am an engineer, or at least I was for most of the past 40 years (until the last round of downsizing got me axed). It's not the industry that matters as much as it is the way of thinking, it's your technical understanding of the problem, and knowing why you made certain design choices.

Just so I know who I'm dealing with here, your background is?

The SS is a fine trim for . . . about 98% of Camaro buyers (Al O. did say 2%, no?). Most people won't even notice the extra understeer compared to a car they aren't driving. This is the car that gets you the bulk of your sales. Call the 1LE and Z/28 bones thrown to the corner-carvers among us if you must, but don't complain about the engineers' choices unless you can bring solid tech of your own to discuss.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Cody6.2

11 vs 11.5 with a 305 tire isn't near the stretch if any at all compared to the 10 vs 11 with a 285 on the 1LE.

In both instances, it's a max width for the size out back, measuring with up front. It wasn't Chevy or their engineers who established those width numbers for those sizes (it's a Tire & Rim Association industry standard that virtually all tire mfrs follow - a few outliers do exist, but only a few)

I know I'm repeating myself somewhat here. It's intentional this time.


Norm