Reputable companies vs. knock offs (informational thread)

[bob vogel]

Originally Posted by LS3 Machine

Im glad you brought this subject up in a thread. Being a car guy who likes to mod the cars I buy I thought I would chime in as well. I like a bargain as much as the next guy, but consider the US workers that jobs may be at stake. The Chinese companies can undersell the us with their knock off parts for one reason: they don't pay their workers a fair wage for a days work. They also provide little to no benefits for their employees. Back in the 1930s thru the 1960s, the US was the worlds leader in manufacturing. We lost that distinction due to sending jobs overseas. While I am somewhat disappointed with the fact that the us unions themselves were a big reason for the shift of jobs to overseas, I still do my very best to buy us made products when I shop. Just this week I was looking at a set of headers, and even though I could have saved some money by getting the Ebay brand, I spent a little more to get a US made set. To me it's just the right thing to do if you can afford it. I'm not judging what others do with their money, it's just the way I feel I need to do things. Check out the documentary "the last train home" for a great view how chinese manufacturing works.

Tim
10 1SS/RS

i'm with you all they way.i'm glad to see this subject brought up we need to pull together on this ...not apart.

[bob vogel]

Originally Posted by Steelsinger

Nice post Marylandspeed!

I worked at Home Depot for years and I have seen it slowly go more and more to China goods. And I have in that time seen the qaulity drop. And many things that was expected to last were bascially junk and last months instead of years. Yes even from the american companies who pulled their companies out of the US and put them in China (to save a buck from being taxed out of business). These days I look and see where the good is made. If my government can not do anything about the situtation then I'll vote with my dollar and buy american when I can.

Anyone that uses the globalization arguement hasn't waiting in the un-employment line when their job is moved out of country.

my 2cents..

well said

[rally yellow ss rs]

Originally Posted by bob vogel

well said

Overpay, because American companies cant compete with price. Be a good American...its an added tax to support American buisness. Heres an idea...find a way to make a good, durable, product that is cheaper in price than foreign.


There is a demand for good, not top of the line, parts that are very affordable...The key to riches is to find a demand and supply it. I just made you a millionaire.

[bob vogel]

Originally Posted by toehead93

I agree with a lot of what is said but I have two comments. #1, I have not seen one factual piece of evidence from anyone in the world to support the claim that a Chinese manufacturer stole the kooks design. It has all been 100% talk. Show me any proof, data, comparisons, dimensions, etc to prove your theory. Or better yet trace them both with the CNC machine to prove they are identical! I don't believe everything I read on the internet like a lot of people in this forum do so until there is evidence in front of me I have no reason to believe your claims. If someone can support the claim so be it, and I thank you in advance. #2, competing with cheap overseas competition is a part of the 21st century, and guess what? It has been for happening for hundreds of years and will happen for hundreds of years to come. Not just for us Americans but for many countries around the world. Its called competition, whether you consider it ethical or not it is never ending.

IMO, most people are taking this way too bad. The knock-offs fill a void in the market. Some people will never buy Kooks LTs because they cost too much so this is a good option. They know they are getting no technical support but that's why they get the good price. For people that can afford to support American products, god bless, but not everyone in this economic state can do so. The worse part is vendors who try to vilify those who buy a Chinese product instead of an American product, well get off your rocket ship and come back to earth...how many of you have ALL USA made LCD tvs, appliances, stereos, gaming stations, computers, clothes, bikes, cars, etc? Exactly, none of you do. If you want to continue to bash then open the doors to your house to us and list all of the products you have to prove they are all American made!

We went through this Japan vs USA for appliances and electronics, now it is acceptable. We went through this Japan vs USA for cars, now it is acceptable. We can also argue online shops and mega stores like our vendors are anti-American because they kill the small local mom and pop stores, so now our vendors are the villains! It is a non-stop pattern so it is best to accept it and figure out how to better suite your American company to compete without calling your potential customers anti-American.

This was a little hard to read. I do see your point. I still do as much as i can to buy U.S.A

[oldfriend]

Well said , i can only add....When you pay peanuts you get monkeys .....

[St33lsinger]

Originally Posted by rally yellow ss rs

Overpay, because American companies cant compete with price. Be a good American...its an added tax to support American buisness. Heres an idea...find a way to make a good, durable, product that is cheaper in price than foreign.


There is a demand for good, not top of the line, parts that are very affordable...The key to riches is to find a demand and supply it. I just made you a millionaire.

That would be great except American companies have to deal with a couple of things, 1st Taxes (local, state, federal, add your favorite one here) 2nd Unions (if applicable) 3rd environmental, 4th Workers cost (insurance, wages, ect) 5th basic cost of running business (cost of materials, shipping, ect).
It is because of these things that american companies find it so hard to compete with countries that do not have to deal with or provide half those things.
Sadly there is no easy answer to a country that can de-value thier money enough to make their products cheap on the "Open" market. Well other than a "Leveling" tariff.

I try to remember that with every purchase that I buy american made, I'm helping/paying wages for that other guy trying to get by here in the US.
And to be honest...I'm tired of buying Ping his dang shoes. sorry

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by rally yellow ss rs

Heres an idea...find a way to make a good, durable, product that is cheaper in price than foreign.

When you figure that out (especially with China artificially altering the value of their currency)...or if you'd like to work for pennies on the dollar to make this a reality...let me know.

In short...it ain't that simple. Americans need to suck it up and by the $2.00 pair of socks made in Maine instead of the $1.95 pair from Korea.

[rally yellow ss rs]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

When you figure that out (especially with China artificially altering the value of their currency)...or if you'd like to work for pennies on the dollar to make this a reality...let me know.

In short...it ain't that simple. Americans need to suck it up and by the $2.00 pair of socks made in Maine instead of the $1.95 pair from Korea.

5 cents is ok, but hundreds,,,not ok. You said, "China artificially altering the value of their currency", thats funny...America is in the lead of adding zero's to their national currency. We are in debt to China...America has had China's top goverment financial gurus come to tell ours how to fix what economy we have.

[KEEP RT]

Americans have all gotten into the get rich quick mode. We all want to make millions in one quick easy move, then retire at 35. Hell look at our government which we allow. Capitalism is good even other countries benefit from it not just china. I own a company and i struggle with customers wanting everything cheaper. We're nonunion but pay over union wages with benefit. Still I only made 3% profit last year. My question is how much did they pay for the CAD machine? was it made 100% in the USA? Is all of their tooling made in the USA? How much % is spent in marketing. How many middle men in line ("sponsors") in the final sale collect a $. Last how big is the annual profit that they could survive with in order to sell for less per unit and possibly make up in volume? STOP getting greedy. If you cant handle ALL the pressure of business get out.

[axis]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

In short...it ain't that simple. Americans need to suck it up and by the $2.00 pair of socks made in Maine instead of the $1.95 pair from Korea.

But ALL these "buy American ONLY" people already do that, don't they? NONE of them shop at Walmart or ANY discount chain store. They ONLY buy the best and ONLY buy American. Doing anything other than that is totally wrong and doesn't help build a better America.

My whole point in getting in ANY of these threads is that you only hear people bitch when it hits home. They are perfectly fine with buying other stuff that is knocked off or comes from the dreaded Chinese, Korea, etc. Why is it that they decide to draw the line at headers? Why didn't they draw the line at blue jeans, shirts, shoes, tools, tires, rims, watches? I laugh at the comments about paying $35+k for their car and won't put anything but the best on it. Are you frigin kidding me? $35k for a car is NOTHING. If you had a $80k Vette, I might see your point. Even then, a expensive car is relative to what you make. I see the same guys in this thread making fun of "ricer" in their civics and such. Maybe to them, $15k for a new Civic is "the best". It's all perspective and has no horse in this race.

The bottom line is, it's YOUR MONEY. Buy what you want. Research ANY part you buy and know the risks/benefits going in. If you're happy with your purchase, that's ALL that should matter.

[BlissStreet]

Originally Posted by srb8

If anybody thinks the rest of the world will rise up to our economic level, you're kidding yourselves. We're headed down to their level.

This would be more credible if you could list the countries where you have lived and seen this happen.

Living as an American ex patriot almost my entire life, I can tell you that this is completely untrue. The economic level, quality of life, spending power and expectations of local governments have all risen dramatically in markets where American consumerism has been exported. The "rest" of the world is rising up to American economic levels, in some cases certainly exceeding it. We are one of 203 countries, with only 310 (2009 census was 307, I rounded to account for all the Mexicans running over the boarder to give birth <- sarcasm) million people out of 6.6 Billion. Time to start thinking like you are part of the family, and not the only child.

As Mark Twain said; "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts."

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by axis

The bottom line is, it's YOUR MONEY. Buy what you want. Research ANY part you buy and know the risks/benefits going in. If you're happy with your purchase, that's ALL that should matter.

That right there is the bottom line and my personal opinion.
Like someone above said. All these companies are turning away customers with their insults and negativity.
They should stick to selling their products and showing us why they deserve our money. instead of insulting those who don't spend the extra money.


Stick to showing us why we should spend our money with you. Give us some proof, some empirical validity that will makes us want the extra money.

[CamaroFTW]

I will always buy what I think is best and worth my money and don't see a point of these posts. My business sells computer hardware which is way more copied then auto parts overall and we don't belly ache about the price dumpers and copycats. We just change the products and offer alternatives (both super high end and budget but, always very good quality) and superior service. Business' in US and China and most everywhere all research some and copy some. This will not change anytime soon...or ever.

As a company, be the best you can be. Offer the best price you can to still make a profit. Don't worry about what eBay is doing. Concentrate on your business and how you can be above your competition.

BTW, Maryland (Brandon)...still waiting on the T-shirt promised like 10 months ago. You know sometimes it is the little things......

[Smoky]

great thread!


Every free man has the right to determine his own value and worth.
Every free business has that same right.
But no one posses the right to dictate what value is or should be to anyone.

So that leaves you SELLING your idea to another for your determined value based on what?

If you build your career or character by demeaning or destroying others, you WILL NOT succeed as most of us understand success.

Show us why it is the CHOICE of choices. Sell your product, if its real they will come.

Next what is your expectation?

Sudden Riches?
Fair wage?
Decent Living?
Filthy Rich?
Life of Luxury?

Your product should be commensurate with your demand.


Let me crack open another relative to this roast if you will. Dare I?

This Forum I do not believe has taken any stand on this issue. Are they caught in the quandary of profit vs viability without the vendors? Will they allow this simple but mild form of harassment to continue or escalate? Or are they trying to remain neutral in their eyes? I fear there are some that wont post openly and honestly to avoid such. I myself rarely share an opinion in such a aggressive or somewhat hostile environment. Matter of perception to all. I see it only continuing as it has for some time. Not an issue with those stating their opinions but to (excuse the term) brow beat a few select members is just not good. But I did and still feel this was a worthwhile and respectful debate. Unlikely will there be agreement accross the board and we understand its different when it strikes closer to home. Which in fact is a fact of life. Change! Adapt! just like you cant stop progress. It's the same old show coming round in different dress.

Can't we all get along?
-Rodney