Latest HTV1900 Harrop supercharger - pics inside!!

[2010SSRS]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Harrop is a Fine company and they have a great reputation so it is a personal choice, it will really depend on what your Final Goal will Be.

When it comes to supercharging with PD blowers the slower you can spin them to make boost the Cooler The charge air will be.

Comparing a 1900 blower to a 2300 blower is the same thing as comparing a Small Block to a Big block, you make more power at less RPM with More Cubes.

I like the bigger blowers since it leaves lots of Room to grow where you can run out of blower starting with a small one.

The 3.4 blowers will be next King of the LS, they are already using them on the 5.4 Fords with Incredable results.

In the Case of blowers Bigger Is Better.

Ted.

so the TVS2300 spinning slower and providing 6 or 8psi of cooler (better) boost and privides more hp at lower rpm's vs. the TVS1900?

if each is running let's say 8psi of boost, is the hp achieved identical?

and the cost difference between the TVS1900 and TVS2300 is?

[Mister HP]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Harrop is a Fine company and they have a great reputation so it is a personal choice, it will really depend on what your Final Goal will Be.

When it comes to supercharging with PD blowers the slower you can spin them to make boost the Cooler The charge air will be.

Comparing a 1900 blower to a 2300 blower is the same thing as comparing a Small Block to a Big block, you make more power at less RPM with More Cubes.

I like the bigger blowers since it leaves lots of Room to grow where you can run out of blower starting with a small one.

The 3.4 blowers will be next King of the LS, they are already using them on the 5.4 Fords with Incredable results.

In the Case of blowers Bigger Is Better.

Ted.

I'm gong to have to disagree with you on this one Ted. Bigger is not always better........... but optimum results can be had on any forced induction setup by properly matching the blowers efficiency range with the engine size.

Now, on a stock LS3, the 1900 is more efficient than a 2300. We have been seeing the same power from a 1900 and cold air kit(530-550RWHP), that most people see with the 2300, cold air kit, and the addition of headers, or even a cam.

If an owner was to go ahead and stroke his LS3 out to 427ci, go with a big blower cam, 1-7/8 headers, fully ported, high flowing heads, and lower compression, then the 2300 would be more within its efficiency range, and be the better choice for the bigger engine.

What we (as well as a few other shops) have found, is that for a more or less stock LS3, the 1900 is perfectly within it's efficiency range, which allows it to produce 20-30 MORE HP at the SAME boost level, compared to a 2300

Out of curiosity, what kind of power numbers are you seeing on a stock M/T LS3 Camaro with just a supercharger kit, and cold air kit? (no headers or cam)

Ed

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Mister HP

I'm gong to have to disagree with you on this one Ted. Bigger is not always better........... but optimum results can be had on any forced induction setup by properly matching the blowers efficiency range with the engine size.

Now, on a stock LS3, the 1900 is more efficient than a 2300. We have been seeing the same power from a 1900 and cold air kit(530-550RWHP), that most people see with the 2300, cold air kit, and the addition of headers, or even a cam.

If an owner was to go ahead and stroke his LS3 out to 427ci, go with a big blower cam, 1-7/8 headers, fully ported, high flowing heads, and lower compression, then the 2300 would be more within its efficiency range, and be the better choice for the bigger engine.

What we (as well as a few other shops) have found, is that for a more or less stock LS3, the 1900 is perfectly within it's efficiency range, which allows it to produce 20-30 MORE HP at the SAME boost level, compared to a 2300

Out of curiosity, what kind of power numbers are you seeing on a stock M/T LS3 Camaro with just a supercharger kit, and cold air kit? (no headers or cam)

Ed

I have never tested that combo, but I did a step by step LS3 build, Magnacharger Superhcarger only at 6.5 PSI was 495 with Maggies Soft 91 octane tune, then added Headers, pulley, cold air kit, and tune in that order.

Magnacharger, TVS2300, Headers, Stock Exhaust, Cold air, and tune at 7.5 PSI boost makes 560 RWHP.

You are welcome to disagree, But the Numbers Don't Lie, the 2300 Produces more Air Flow at Lower RPM, Producing over 500 Ft. Lb. Torque at only 2500 RPM.

Now That's FUN!

I have Used the 1900 and there is NO Comparison.

Ted.

[Mister HP]

OK, so your 2300 combination made 560 RWHP with the following:

2300 supercharger
cold air kit
LT headers
custom tune
7.5 PSI


We had our 1900 setup on a Mustang dyno yesterday(which usually reads roughly 10% lower than our dynojet) and it made 540 RWHP with the following:

1900 supercharger
cold air kit
out of the box tune
6 PSI

what do you think will happen if we go up another 1.5 PSI of boost?
Ed

[Speed74SS]

LPE is using the TVS2300 on almost all their packages and it seems to be working just fine.

[Slowhawk]

Originally Posted by Mister HP

OK, so your 2300 combination made 560 RWHP with the following:

2300 supercharger
cold air kit
LT headers
custom tune
7.5 PSI


We had our 1900 setup on a Mustang dyno yesterday(which usually reads roughly 10% lower than our dynojet) and it made 540 RWHP with the following:

1900 supercharger
cold air kit
out of the box tune
6 PSI

what do you think will happen if we go up another 1.5 PSI of boost?
Ed

I see the points but it really needs a back/back test on the same car with custom tuning instead of the box Magnacharger tune since we know the tune can vary car to car.

I would expect the 2300 to make more power everywhere on these cars with the spot on tuning. We tested the old Mag. setups with the 112 spun to the max and the 122 spun to the max.(both 16+lbs)Both made very similar #'s BUT when you back/back pulled them the 112 dropped alot of power compared to the 122 due to heat from over spinning.We would see temps of 250+ on the inlet. This is why I feel the 2300 would make more power than the 1900,expecially going through the gears where heat soak builds up.

[Mister HP]

Originally Posted by Slowhawk

I see the points but it really needs a back/back test on the same car with custom tuning instead of the box Magnacharger tune since we know the tune can vary car to car.

I would expect the 2300 to make more power everywhere on these cars with the spot on tuning. We tested the old Mag. setups with the 112 spun to the max and the 122 spun to the max.(both 16+lbs)Both made very similar #'s BUT when you back/back pulled them the 112 dropped alot of power compared to the 122 due to heat from over spinning.We would see temps of 250+ on the inlet. This is why I feel the 2300 would make more power than the 1900,expecially going through the gears where heat soak builds up.

Slowhawk, you're exactly right and on a bigger cube engine, with maxed out heads, I couldn't agree more, the 2300 would be the better choice.

If you guys were getting 16 PSI out of a 112 or a 122, you were def. spinning the snot out of it!!, which is what would account for the 250+ IAT temps!! The 112 and the 122 were both too small for a 346 ci engine, so you had to spin them faster to get the boost you were looking for.


The point here is that the majority of the people supercharging their new Camaros are installing a kit, on an otherwise stock LS3 engine, and they are using the 2300, which is a little too big for this engine, in stock form.


The major point that is being missed is this:

with the HTV1900, if a customer wants to buy a blower kit, install it out of the box with the supplied tune, and see mid- 500 RWHP, he can do it!

I might be mistaken, but all of the 2300 dyno graphs that I have seen for a base 2300 supercharger kit installed on a stock car have been in the 500 RWHP range. Higher power numbers are using headers, and cams in some cases, which adds considerable cost.

Ed

[Gotthat02fire]

I think the 2300 is a great blower for guys that aren't sure how far they want to take there motor build I would love to build the whole motor around the biggest blower avalible not get shorted on my build up do to a small blower!!! None the less I think we can all agree any kind of boost is good boost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

[old motorhead]

Where does that 20 to 30 hp go? Is it eaten up by blower drive losses? Or is it eaten up by pumping losses?

I would think that if the drive was that ineffecient on the bigger blower, a 6 rib belt would not last long at all. I have thousands of miles on mine...no problems.

If the bigger blower were so sloppy that you somehow lost 30hp worth of air at 6000 rpm, it would not even pump any boost at all in the lower rpm ranges (similar to a centrifugal). My TVS2300 is capable of reaching full boost (8.5psi) at 2500 rpm. HMMMM.

Not argueing that a 1900 will feed a STOCK LS3. I just think the 20 to 30 hp difference if more than a little far fetched.

[JANNETTYRACING]

with the HTV1900, if a customer wants to buy a blower kit, install it out of the box with the supplied tune, and see mid- 500 RWHP, he can do it!

Send me One I will Test it.

[Gotthat02fire]

TED I'll bring my Camaro up for comparsion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Speed74SS]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Send me One I will Test it.

I vote for Ted testing both of these units

[2010SSRS]

i vote for Mr HP to do a comparison also......i also volunteer my LS3 (for a free S/C of course)..

just an offer....

[Robin Lawrence]

I will be doing a back to back comparison of the LSA TVS 1900 verses the Edelbrock TVS 2300.
I currently have the GM Performance Parts LSA Crate engine in my Camaro making 14 pounds of boost.
We will pulley the 2300 to make the same boost and see what the differences are.

The Edelbrock has a larger intercooler in the intake so we will also look at the intake air differences.

Mike Hewitt might let me use a Harrop for some testing also......yeah right! LOL.

We will perform the testing on an engine dyno before chassis dyno testing.

It should be interesting.

Robin