Z28 or ZL1??? - Page 17 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

DrkPhx · 03-30-2013, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcePick06

It's funny people are now discounting the ZL1 as a track car.

Let's not forget all the magazine reviews and lightning laps and the fact that the ZL1 was engineered 1st and foremost on the track. Do people not remember the 5 Phase videos that unveiled the countless hours of GM engineers perfecting it on the track?

It's amazing isn't it? The tune seemingly changed overnight.

OldScoolCamaro · 03-30-2013, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

It's amazing isn't it? The tune seemingly changed overnight.

...so, as I see it, you are poking fun at GM, its work involved with the ZL1 project, and a disconnect from that to the Z/28 announcement? My gosh where do you really stand? Things do get better, and faster than we have ever been accustomed to before no doubt. But to poke fun at the notion that once was is not, is childish.

BrazenBeast · 03-30-2013, 10:26 PM

Everyone forgets too that a lot of the technology and parts on the 1LE and I assume Z/28 were originally designed through the ZL1 development. Some of the suspension upgrades for the ZL1 found their way to all SS camaros. It's a natural progression. I'm sure the lessons learned from the Z/28 will be applied to future ZL1 models where they can be. Wheels, seats, brakes, lighter glass etc. may also be options for future ZL1's.

DrkPhx · 03-30-2013, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

...so, as I see it, you are poking fun at GM, its work involved with the ZL1 project, and a disconnect from that to the Z/28 announcement? My gosh where do you really stand? Things do get better, and faster than we have ever been accustomed to before no doubt. But to poke fun at the notion that once was is not, is childish.

Nothing childish about stating the facts. I still love my ZL1 and I think GM hit a home run with the Z/28. You're right things do (and should) get better.

OldScoolCamaro · 03-30-2013, 11:25 PM

...well, one's opinion's aren't fact Drk, but we are all good.....

SSBN625Starr · 03-31-2013, 02:12 AM

It looks to me like the Z28 is not in competition with the ZL1 at all! The Z28 is like a COPO you can drive to track. Stripped down so that only the real speed freaks would use it as a daily driver or could stand to drive it any real distance without going bonkers. The ZL1 is more of a touring beast rather than the track monster Z28.

Still...I'm glad Chevy made this Z28 instead of some other mix of features. A 1LE with the 427 would be more competition for the ZL1. With this Z28, the resale of ZL1s just increased.

Sabot · 03-31-2013, 02:51 AM

This is what I think is going to happen to most of this new and awesome Z/28.....I see a lot of people buying the car and then a year or two, most will end up in a used car lot. Most will be buying for the #'s and engine bling and soon realize there's a price to pay for that. Anyway my opinion and I'll be waiting for the Z on a used car lot to get one.

WLNY · 03-31-2013, 06:08 AM

This car is built for track guys and collectors. It's also a halo car so I don't think it matters to Chevy how many they sell but who they sell to. They just want to show everyone that this is a new era for them and they can build great cars. I think this is a good long term approach. Guys who never even consider Chevy before, like myself, are the ones they're really after.

Terebit · 03-31-2013, 08:32 AM

camaro-news/fbodfather-comments-on-the-2014-camaro-and-the-z28

fbodfather - The 2014 is dedicated to the “Z/28” purist. This is a track car that makes no excuses. That this car is a full three seconds faster on a track than the mighty ZL1 speaks volumes to its intent. Make no mistake – this isn’t a slap at the mightly ZL1. Far from it. If you want a car that blows other cars off a road course on Saturday and Sunday – and yet will get you to the office in comfort on Monday morning – the ZL1 is the car for you. If you want blistering track performance at a reasonable cost – the 1LE is prescribed. And – if you want to shame exotics on a road course – with an automobile that’s not meant for daily driving, then the Z/28 makes no apologies and may grab you by the collar – shake you silly — and shout “LET’S GO MAKE HISTORY!”

1967rsss · 03-31-2013, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWingsZL1

So, an LS3 black that is build primarily by machines and robots cost the same as an LS7 that is primarily built by hand?

You know why people use machines and robots? To save on labor cost. Once you pay for the robot, you don't have to pay it to work hourly.

If the LS3 and LS7 had the same COST for GM to build, GM would sell them for the same price.

You have it wrong both blocks are built by machines, the LS7 is hand assembled. The real cost difference including labor is under $3000.

GM marks them up for profit.

A good example of this is the V6 Camaro VS the SS. GM makes more money on the SS because people are willing to pay more for it.

The facts are what they are. Both the LS3 and LS7 blocks cost the same in raw materials. They both are machined. The LS7 does have better internal components but the retail price does not reflect the actual cost to build difference.

1967rsss · 03-31-2013, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabot

This is what I think is going to happen to most of this new and awesome Z/28.....I see a lot of people buying the car and then a year or two, most will end up in a used car lot. Most will be buying for the #'s and engine bling and soon realize there's a price to pay for that. Anyway my opinion and I'll be waiting for the Z on a used car lot to get one.

That's my plan. I hope my guy keeps it clean and maintained.

I plan to keep the ZL and add a second hand Z for the best of both. Now if I could get a COPO.........

Flea · 03-31-2013, 11:00 AM

I'm curious to see how many Z28's are actually left the way they were designed. Before I had the ZL1, I had a Porsche Cayman. So naturally, I hung out on a forum with a bunch of Cayman and Boxster owners. I was excited when Porsche introduced the Boxster Spyder and then the Cayman R. They were pure track machines; lightened, different suspension, no a/c, no radio, etc. Pretty much the same stuff that was done to the Z28 to make it a near perfect track car that was also street legal. However, people just couldn't live without those comfort options. Boxster Spyders and Cayman R's were being ordered with the a/c, stereo, navigation, more comfortable seats, and other non-essentials. Dealers were even spec'ing them that way. People loved the idea of a track car on the street, but they couldn't keep it designed that way if it was going to be driven on the street regularly. In the end, most of the Boxster Spyders and Cayman R's I've seen in the dealer and online are nothing more than Boxster S's and Cayman S's with a couple special features only on their "track car" siblings. I was sad to see that, because in my opinion, it ruined the design and purpose of the car. I have a feeling a lot of Z28's will be suffering the same fate. They won't be all out lightened track shredders. They will look like one, but will wind up with stereos and air conditioners installed, which will add a chunk of weight back to them. They will be good looking cars with a Z28 badge, but tweaked for everyday comfort and use. It's purpose will be lost. The Z28's advantages will be lost. Because of this, I think the ZL1 will remain the King of Camaros, both on and off the track.

Unreal · 03-31-2013, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1967rsss

You have it wrong both blocks are built by machines, the LS7 is hand assembled. The real cost difference including labor is under $3000.

GM marks them up for profit.

A good example of this is the V6 Camaro VS the SS. GM makes more money on the SS because people are willing to pay more for it.

The facts are what they are. Both the LS3 and LS7 blocks cost the same in raw materials. They both are machined. The LS7 does have better internal components but the retail price does not reflect the actual cost to build difference.

Not 100% accurate. LS7 block is more expensive because of the billet main caps.

360ss · 03-31-2013, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabot

This is what I think is going to happen to most of this new and awesome Z/28.....I see a lot of people buying the car and then a year or two, most will end up in a used car lot. Most will be buying for the #'s and engine bling and soon realize there's a price to pay for that. Anyway my opinion and I'll be waiting for the Z on a used car lot to get one.

This seems like two teammates battling for the same position . Godzilla vs King Kong . Lets wait 12 months ,line'em up and race .

03-30-2013, 10:26 PM	#227
BrazenBeast ZL1 #1745 Drives: 2006 Pontiac GTO \ 2012 ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: PA/OH Posts: 328	Everyone forgets too that a lot of the technology and parts on the 1LE and I assume Z/28 were originally designed through the ZL1 development. Some of the suspension upgrades for the ZL1 found their way to all SS camaros. It's a natural progression. I'm sure the lessons learned from the Z/28 will be applied to future ZL1 models where they can be. Wheels, seats, brakes, lighter glass etc. may also be options for future ZL1's. __________________ 2012 zl1 Black #1745 Black Wheels ECF Suede 6 spd

03-30-2013, 11:25 PM	#229
OldScoolCamaro Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will. Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Home of the brave Posts: 4,851	...well, one's opinion's aren't fact Drk, but we are all good..... __________________ In Scott We Trust...all others must show proof.

03-31-2013, 02:12 AM	#230
SSBN625Starr Drives: Inferno Orange Metallic ZL1 Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Green Bay, WI Posts: 53	Good news for the ZL1 It looks to me like the Z28 is not in competition with the ZL1 at all! The Z28 is like a COPO you can drive to track. Stripped down so that only the real speed freaks would use it as a daily driver or could stand to drive it any real distance without going bonkers. The ZL1 is more of a touring beast rather than the track monster Z28. Still...I'm glad Chevy made this Z28 instead of some other mix of features. A 1LE with the 427 would be more competition for the ZL1. With this Z28, the resale of ZL1s just increased.

03-31-2013, 11:00 AM	#236
Flea Drives: Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: South Carolina Posts: 199	I'm curious to see how many Z28's are actually left the way they were designed. Before I had the ZL1, I had a Porsche Cayman. So naturally, I hung out on a forum with a bunch of Cayman and Boxster owners. I was excited when Porsche introduced the Boxster Spyder and then the Cayman R. They were pure track machines; lightened, different suspension, no a/c, no radio, etc. Pretty much the same stuff that was done to the Z28 to make it a near perfect track car that was also street legal. However, people just couldn't live without those comfort options. Boxster Spyders and Cayman R's were being ordered with the a/c, stereo, navigation, more comfortable seats, and other non-essentials. Dealers were even spec'ing them that way. People loved the idea of a track car on the street, but they couldn't keep it designed that way if it was going to be driven on the street regularly. In the end, most of the Boxster Spyders and Cayman R's I've seen in the dealer and online are nothing more than Boxster S's and Cayman S's with a couple special features only on their "track car" siblings. I was sad to see that, because in my opinion, it ruined the design and purpose of the car. I have a feeling a lot of Z28's will be suffering the same fate. They won't be all out lightened track shredders. They will look like one, but will wind up with stereos and air conditioners installed, which will add a chunk of weight back to them. They will be good looking cars with a Z28 badge, but tweaked for everyday comfort and use. It's purpose will be lost. The Z28's advantages will be lost. Because of this, I think the ZL1 will remain the King of Camaros, both on and off the track. __________________

03-31-2013, 02:51 AM	#231
Sabot Drives: ZL1 Gone :( Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 93	This is what I think is going to happen to most of this new and awesome Z/28.....I see a lot of people buying the car and then a year or two, most will end up in a used car lot. Most will be buying for the #'s and engine bling and soon realize there's a price to pay for that. Anyway my opinion and I'll be waiting for the Z on a used car lot to get one.

03-31-2013, 06:08 AM	#232
WLNY Drives: ZL1 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: United States Posts: 137 View My Garage	This car is built for track guys and collectors. It's also a halo car so I don't think it matters to Chevy how many they sell but who they sell to. They just want to show everyone that this is a new era for them and they can build great cars. I think this is a good long term approach. Guys who never even consider Chevy before, like myself, are the ones they're really after.

03-31-2013, 08:32 AM	#233
Terebit TBit Drives: 1973 Camaro Type LT & 2013 ZL1 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 44	camaro-news/fbodfather-comments-on-the-2014-camaro-and-the-z28 fbodfather - The 2014 is dedicated to the “Z/28” purist. This is a track car that makes no excuses. That this car is a full three seconds faster on a track than the mighty ZL1 speaks volumes to its intent. Make no mistake – this isn’t a slap at the mightly ZL1. Far from it. If you want a car that blows other cars off a road course on Saturday and Sunday – and yet will get you to the office in comfort on Monday morning – the ZL1 is the car for you. If you want blistering track performance at a reasonable cost – the 1LE is prescribed. And – if you want to shame exotics on a road course – with an automobile that’s not meant for daily driving, then the Z/28 makes no apologies and may grab you by the collar – shake you silly — and shout “LET’S GO MAKE HISTORY!”