Businessweek: "Just don't call it a Muscle Car"

[linkwpc]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Funny thing is, only recently has the Camaro been a "muscle car". It has always been a pony car; America's sport compact. 28 mpg is just fine for the V6. All in all, very good article, and in my opinion right on point.

I thought muscle car = pony car. Right? Anyways I do hope the gas milege will be better then the 05 mustangs. But even if it does not, I'm still buy the v8. No V6 for me.... So let then do anything to the v6 as long I got my V8.

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by linkwpc

I thought muscle car = pony car. Right? Anyways I do hope the gas milege will be better then the 05 mustangs. But even if it does not, I'm still buy the v8. No V6 for me.... So let then do anything to the v6 as long I got my V8.

The muscle cars were mid size or full size cars with high HP engines, Chevelle, GTO, Road Runner, etc., pony cars were the smaller cars usually with long hood/short trunk that could also have high HP engines, Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, Firebird, etc. Looking back in time the pony cars often get lumped in with the muscle cars.
Clyde

[Scotsman]

Alright, my patience has seriously worn THIN: If you're going to buy the V8 that's great, there's absolutely NO need to keep reminding folks that no matter what other engines there will be that you're going to buy the V8. I think a lot of us are more curious as to the potential of the V6 than the V8, we already know it's going to run and keep up with the big boys.

Back to the topic of marketing: I think they're finding that there's limited appeal with the whole "muscle car" stigma of tire shredding, harsh riding and technologically inefficient domestic performance cars of yesteryear. I'm all for highlighting the traditional features and overall look of the 5th-gen's glorious design, but I think for the future performance is bigger than muscle (what an oxymoron!).

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by linkwpc

I thought muscle car = pony car. Right? Anyways I do hope the gas milege will be better then the 05 mustangs. But even if it does not, I'm still buy the v8. No V6 for me.... So let then do anything to the v6 as long I got my V8.

Pony cars were the original American sport compacts. So while high performance V8s were offered, the V6 models were intended to still be sporty and to be the volume sellers. Handling was a bigger consideration than it was in your traditional muscle car. I think it is more accurate to say that some pony cars were muscle cars.

[The_Blur]

All the people who want the muscle car will want the V8 anyway. I like that GM has prioritized fuel economy. It's a great selling point that will help Chevrolet conquer the Mustang and Challenger.

[carfansince73]

Originally Posted by DerScotsman

Some of you guys have got to dump the V6 Stang mentality, it will NOT be the same kind of V6 "pony" car. It will actually be a more than decent performance car and not some Budget rent-a-car. And who are the tree huggers? I'm certainly not and I'm strongly considering the V6 because I don't want to make best friends with the clerk at my local gas station, and I know I'm not getting just any ol' V6 but a V6 that was especially developed for a Caddy (for crying out loud). And have you guys heard the 3.6 DI V6 in the CTS??? It sounds pretty darn decent to me.

Sorry dude, wasn't implying that anyone considering a V6 Camaro was a tree hugger, but rather saying that the car line isn't going to be a total gas hog like the Hummer brand for instance. It doesn't matter what GM does to the those trucks, not many like the image they portray today, big, heavy, and THIRSTY. Like others have said, selling v6's and maybe turbo 4's will make the V8 possible. Also, I did say in my post that the V6 will perform well as I don't think GM would be stupid enough to make a lame rental car version. Plus, all you have to do is scan any car mag to see V6's with LOTS of potential, just add a turbo or supercharger to make that smile on your face BIGGER.

Not to mention with all the spyshots we've seen, some have been V6 Camaros, and they ALL look nice.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Pony cars were the original American sport compacts. So while high performance V8s were offered, the V6 models were intended to still be sporty and to be the volume sellers. Handling was a bigger consideration than it was in your traditional muscle car. I think it is more accurate to say that some pony cars were muscle cars.

To further add to that, pony cars are a subset of muscle car. A muscle car's home is the dragstrip. A pony car is more at home on a road course, but will hold its own at the dragstrip. So back in the day, SS Camaros were muscle cars without question, and the Z28's were clearly pony cars.

[2001ragtop]

The V6 camaro is more exotic than the V8. Very special car indeed.
http://drupal.caddyinfo.com/?q=node/44

Cadillac DI3.6L (LLT) engine details, 2008
Submitted by bwnunnally on Sat, 10/06/2007 - 17:39. Engine CTS STS
2008 GM 3.6L V6 VVT DI (LLT)

3.6L V6 VVT DI (LLT) CAR ENGINE

2008 MODEL YEAR


New base engine in Cadillac STS, optional in CTS

Advanced multi-outlet fuel injectors for direct combustion chamber fuel injection

High-pressure engine-driven fuel pump for multiple injection events

Variable pressure, stainless steel fuel rail

Advanced engine control module (ECM) for direct injection control

All applications matched to 6L50 six-speed automatic transmission

New direct injection engine keeps oil life monitoring system

Variable intake dropped

Cam phasing coupled with direct injection further reduces exhaust emissions

Cast aluminum cylinder block and heads

Double overhead cams with four valves per cylinder

Cams driven by small-pitch, quiet chain

Variable valve timing with four-cam phasing for precise intake and exhaust tuning

High-power and high efficiency 11.3:1 compression ratio

Lightweight strong forged aluminum pistons with low-friction wrist pins

Oil jets cool the pistons, while polymer-coated skirts reduce noise and friction

Durable forged crankshaft, and precision sinter-forged connecting rods

Cast aluminum structural oil pan and steel baffles stiffens block and reduces noise

Electronic throttle control with advanced integrated cruise control

Reliable coil-on-spark-plug ignition

Optimally tuned exhaust manifolds with close-coupled catalytic converters

Composite camshaft covers are fully isolated and reduce noise

Numerous other noise, vibration and harshness controls

Exclusive durability enhancements and minimal maintenance requirements

Manufacturing techniques refined for exceptional quality and line efficiency

[LS9CamaroSS]

Originally Posted by 2001ragtop

The V6 camaro is more exotic than the V8. Very special car indeed.
http://drupal.caddyinfo.com/?q=node/44

Cadillac DI3.6L (LLT) engine details, 2008
Submitted by bwnunnally on Sat, 10/06/2007 - 17:39. Engine CTS STS
2008 GM 3.6L V6 VVT DI (LLT)

3.6L V6 VVT DI (LLT) CAR ENGINE

2008 MODEL YEAR


New base engine in Cadillac STS, optional in CTS

Advanced multi-outlet fuel injectors for direct combustion chamber fuel injection

High-pressure engine-driven fuel pump for multiple injection events

Variable pressure, stainless steel fuel rail

Advanced engine control module (ECM) for direct injection control

All applications matched to 6L50 six-speed automatic transmission

New direct injection engine keeps oil life monitoring system

Variable intake dropped

Cam phasing coupled with direct injection further reduces exhaust emissions

Cast aluminum cylinder block and heads

Double overhead cams with four valves per cylinder

Cams driven by small-pitch, quiet chain

Variable valve timing with four-cam phasing for precise intake and exhaust tuning

High-power and high efficiency 11.3:1 compression ratio

Lightweight strong forged aluminum pistons with low-friction wrist pins

Oil jets cool the pistons, while polymer-coated skirts reduce noise and friction

Durable forged crankshaft, and precision sinter-forged connecting rods

Cast aluminum structural oil pan and steel baffles stiffens block and reduces noise

Electronic throttle control with advanced integrated cruise control

Reliable coil-on-spark-plug ignition

Optimally tuned exhaust manifolds with close-coupled catalytic converters

Composite camshaft covers are fully isolated and reduce noise

Numerous other noise, vibration and harshness controls

Exclusive durability enhancements and minimal maintenance requirements

Manufacturing techniques refined for exceptional quality and line efficiency

STOP TEASING ME!!!!! this thing has a HUGE compression ratio though... might be an issue when considering a SC

[JustinZS]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

All the people who want the muscle car will want the V8 anyway. I like that GM has prioritized fuel economy. It's a great selling point that will help Chevrolet conquer the Mustang and Challenger.

Yep I think 2-3 years back when gm and dodge announced they were bringing back the camaro and challenger it was heralded as the return of the muscle car war cause it was cool to say and hear but in the time since with gas prices skyrocketing and fuel efficiency the buzz word now I think its smart what GM is doing in terms of marketing.

[Bruno]

I don't really care what they call it. If it performs well it will sell well (if priced reasonably) and it'll be loved by american muscle fans regardless.

I'm really happy to hear there might be 4, 6 and 8 cylinder versions especially now that we see the 4 cylinder solstice might hit 300hp! THe broader the range of offerings the more camaros will sell and more success it will be.

[Camaro_Corvette]

They can market it however they want, but it will still be considered a muscle car to me...

[LS9CamaroSS]

don't worry to most on these boards it will still be a muscle/pony car...

[radz28]

They can call it whatever they want to sell it; Camaro will always mean Ponycar/Musclecar to me