Do you think a new Z/28 could beat a 69 trans am camaro ?

[Wizard1183]

It'd be interesting. Considering the 69 had approx the same amount of horses as a current SS and it being lighter, it may have the edge.

Putting racing tires on an SS I'd think the SS would win since suspension is much better than back then. Anyone has a '69 to text this theory? Lol

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Jims73z

I found a dyno of a 70 boss mustang and it was 455 to the tire.

Considering chassis dynos were not widely used until post-'69, I question this result...

That's more apt to be a Gross hp rating on an ENGINE dyno, if that result is from the '69 era. TRACO T/A-Series 302s were generally considered to make around 450 @ the crank, back in the day.

[Jims73z]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Considering chassis dynos were not widely used until post-'69, I question this result...

That's more apt to be a Gross hp rating on an ENGINE dyno, if that result is from the '69 era. TRACO T/A-Series 302s were generally considered to make around 450 @ the crank, back in the day.

The dyno I found was of a current historic racer.
http://youtu.be/VmnusGqIBeg

[Wizard1183]

Originally Posted by Jims73z

The dyno I found was of a current historic racer.
http://youtu.be/VmnusGqIBeg

Hmmmm yea I wasn't sure but I knew it was at least or around 430HP. I'd say the SS doesn't stand a chance to it since its overweight and needs a diet.

[GearheadSS]

That's like asking if an F22 is faster than a P51 Mustang.

[Jim968]

Originally Posted by Jims73z

So I'm continuing to answer my own question. The video of laguna seca on old bass I timed at 1.46 and the laguna seca new boss was 1.40. Got to say the in camera of the old car looks like a blast. Check these out
http://youtu.be/ybCNLNSz5uI

http://youtu.be/61mkleZfxdg

Even a bone stock 2010 SS on street tires can can beat that old Boss 302:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/l...ss_laguna_lap/

[Jims73z]

That's awesome. I wonder if the fe4 on 2012+ removed some of the under steer.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Jims73z

The dyno I found was of a current historic racer.
http://youtu.be/VmnusGqIBeg

A LOT of improvements in procedures AND materials in the last 40 years.

To give you an idea, in the mid-'70s, 500" Pro Stock engines made less than 900, gross, while The Professor claims they're making mid-1400s today ... a 50% improvement. See the current (June '13) issue of Hot Rod Magazine for the interview.

No data given on whether the current version, above, has the Cross BOSS/Autolite inline carbs that are mighty rare today, but were worth some extra ponies, back in the day.

[SAE05]

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Anything is possible. I would like to see this match up with the Z/28.
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[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Technology has advanced so much that race cars of yesteryear can be outperformed by mundane street cars today. Modern track focused car will annihilate anything from 1969.

I remember seeing an interview of Walter rohl mentioning today's street cars are far more capable than the cars he used to race back in the day

It may be that race cars from yesteryear are not understood well. The car in my sig pic went 197 mph at Spa in 1967 and it was the Grand Prix winner that year. Spa was 90% public roads at the time. No aero. Bias-ply tires, hard as rocks

A "mundane street car" from 2014 is not doing that even with new tire tech. Even if you put 10,000 hp to the mundane car's drive wheels it's not beating that old F1 racer on the public road track. Everything from ramp angles to bounce and rebound, to spring rate, to toe on all four corners to the number of clutches to the final drive and every gear split, to the brake bias and ride height were tuned on the F1 car for that track or could be tuned for it, as standard practice. In real practical use it was usually just the gear splits since teams showed up with not a lot of pit time to prep, but the new, mundane car just simply doesn't have the capability that old F1 cars has; if the new car can use it's whole capability then the old one can too

I agree that a new car built for track use can and will surpass that old car given the tech available today. But the idea that an old race car is beat by everything that's new is not very accurate. I have no doubt that a 1967 Gurney-Welslake Eage F1 would present a real challenge to a new Z/28 or ZL-1 or new Corvette pick-your-alphabet-soup on that public road track, or on a purpose built track. The lack of aero on the old car would be the worst mark against it...but then again by 1969, F1 cars had aero, and then the turbo era cars in F1 were right around the corner

[Firefighter]

Originally Posted by ChrisBlair

It may be that race cars from yesteryear are not understood well. The car in my sig pic went 197 mph at Spa in 1967 and it was the Grand Prix winner that year. Spa was 90% public roads at the time. No aero. Bias-ply tires, hard as rocks

A "mundane street car" from 2014 is not doing that even with new tire tech. Even if you put 10,000 hp to the mundane car's drive wheels it's not beating that old F1 racer on the public road track. Everything from ramp angles to bounce and rebound, to spring rate, to toe on all four corners to the number of clutches to the final drive and every gear split, to the brake bias and ride height were tuned on the F1 car for that track or could be tuned for it, as standard practice. In real practical use it was usually just the gear splits since teams showed up with not a lot of pit time to prep, but the new, mundane car just simply doesn't have the capability that old F1 cars has; if the new car can use it's whole capability then the old one can too

I agree that a new car built for track use can and will surpass that old car given the tech available today. But the idea that an old race car is beat by everything that's new is not very accurate. I have no doubt that a 1967 Gurney-Welslake Eage F1 would present a real challenge to a new Z/28 or ZL-1 or new Corvette pick-your-alphabet-soup on that public road track, or on a purpose built track. The lack of aero on the old car would be the worst mark against it...but then again by 1969, F1 cars had aero, and then the turbo era cars in F1 were right around the corner

F1 cars were/are a TOTALLY different animal than a Trans Am car. Aside from that I completely agree with your assesment. But I feel a typical street performance car has got to be similar in performance to an old T/A racer. I'm pretty comfortable with the thought that an SSor better in the camaro line up will give the Original Z/28 hell on a track and I would guess a 1LE on up would be faster.

The SS and an SS/1LE would be a race. I think either of the current Z's will beat it handily.

Then again this is just my uneducated/slightly informed opinion...

[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

F1 cars were/are a TOTALLY different animal than a Trans Am car. Aside from that I completely agree with your assesment. But I feel a typical street performance car has got to be similar in performance to an old T/A racer. I'm pretty comfortable with the thought that an SSor better in the camaro line up will give the Original Z/28 hell on a track and I would guess a 1LE on up would be faster.

The SS and an SS/1LE would be a race. I think either of the current Z's will beat it handily.

Then again this is just my uneducated/slightly informed opinion...

that's what I said: race cars are race cars, they are a different breed

I'm responding, in much of that thing I posted, to this:

"Technology has advanced so much that race cars of yesteryear can be outperformed by mundane street cars today. Modern track focused car will annihilate anything from 1969."

That's a thing that I think can be very true, but it is not an automatic thing

[SUKXOST]

I can't believe this an actual question/debate.

Do you think I would win a gun fight with a Nerf bat?

[Firefighter]

Originally Posted by ChrisBlair

that's what I said: race cars are race cars, they are a different breed

I'm responding, in much of that thing I posted, to this:

"Technology has advanced so much that race cars of yesteryear can be outperformed by mundane street cars today. Modern track focused car will annihilate anything from 1969."

That's a thing that I think can be very true, but it is not an automatic thing

I think I misread your post and I was thinking that you were comparing the F1 cars for our conversation. I think (I may be wrong) that the old T/A racers were more akin to a street car. Kinda like what the Stock Cars used to be. Now they are a different animal all together.