What are your views on this, plz read

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I beg to differ on that point. I think the UAW (and CAW) has done a lot to raise our standard of living to that level.

That wasn't quite the context I meant that to be read in...but that was my fault.
You raise a good point; and I agree.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

That wasn't quite the context I meant that to be read in...but that was my fault.
You raise a good point; and I agree.

what can I say, I have a knack for twisting words to make a good point

[UA488Fitter]

I aggree with both Dragoneye and DGthe3; and add this statement for all to contemplate.

If one were to look at the countries around the world, you will notice that; the higher the union participation there is in the work force of that country, the higher their standard of living is. Not to mention the higher the quality of the goods they produce is.

Anyone out there have an example that shows this statement to be false?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by UA488Fitter

I aggree with both Dragoneye and DGthe3; and add this statement for all to contemplate.

If one were to look at the countries around the world, you will notice that; the higher the union participation there is in the work force of that country, the higher their standard of living is. Not to mention the higher the quality of the goods they produce is.

Anyone out there have an example that shows this statement to be false?

Soviet Union . . .

[UA488Fitter]

Soviet Union . . . Not the same thing be any stretch of the imagination DGthe3.

Not even close; just one group of thugs taking over from another group of thugs, with
freedoms stifled, capitalism stifled, police state......

That's not what unionism is all about; I think you realize that.

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Soviet Union . . .

Sukhoi came to mind.

I'm not in a union, but they have been, and still can be useful to the working man. Just because government hates them doesn't make them bad, it makes me want to look for corporate corruption in our government.

Originally Posted by UA488Fitter

Soviet Union . . . Not the same thing be any stretch of the imagination DGthe3.

Not even close; just one group of thugs taking over from another group of thugs, with
freedoms stifled, capitalism stifled, police state......

That's not what unionism is all about; I think you realize that.

hmmmm you mean democrat/republican thugs? Oh...USSR...hmmmm Did you know key words in a post will put you on a 'watch' list?

[UA488Fitter]

Sukhoi ????

Please do enlighten me.

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by UA488Fitter

Sukhoi ????

Please do enlighten me.

Nah I can see you're just too smart for me. You asked a simple question, it was simply answered but it's getting too political in here.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

Fox is the least credible of any of the major news sources, followed closely by CNN.

Maybe but he was quoting the New York Post.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

f*** free trade. Mirror the trade policies of trade partners.

I'm for this.

Originally Posted by dbotsfordtat

when management screws up in China they don't get golden parachutes or bonuses, the Chinese government puts them to death. I could agree to that.

Or at least something similar. I thought Bonuses were for a job well done. But then again we're supposed to teach all of our children to be proud of themselves. I was allways taught that in order to be proud of yourself you should accomplish something to be proud of.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

what can I say, I have a knack for twisting words to make a good point

So does Rush Limbaugh. ...............Just sayin'

Look, why can't they create a percentage of pay cut and start from the top down? ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP. And then move on to the next problem.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by UA488Fitter

Soviet Union . . . Not the same thing be any stretch of the imagination DGthe3.

Not even close; just one group of thugs taking over from another group of thugs, with
freedoms stifled, capitalism stifled, police state......

That's not what unionism is all about; I think you realize that.

No, and I think you realize that a police state run by thugs who stifle freedom is not what communism is about

My point, which I didn't really have time to elaborate on, was that the soviet union was formed with the dream of creating a sort of workers paradise. Where power came from the masses who produce the wealth, not the elite who controlled it. The ideals of communism have a lot of commonality with unions. Was the USSR a true workers union (or any sort of paradise)? Of course not. But I bet we would have a hard time distinguishing a union of millions who had control of the country from a communist state.

But enough about communism (I've pushed politics as far as I'm willing to go), lets all watch that video again.

Originally Posted by irpq11

So does Rush Limbaugh. ...............Just sayin'

I said a good point . I chose my words carefully on stuff like that for just such an occasion.

[PQ]

If everyone is destined to be equal, why aspire to be better than the next guy? Do whatever it takes within the rules of ethics, common sense, law, and god.

And I do understand the 70 dollar per hour figure, but the competition figures aren't as high. And anyway, it's not just the union causing problems for the auto industry. How many businesses out there would not be in trouble if all of a sudden you had half your sales go away?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by irpq11

And I do understand the 70 dollar per hour figure, but the competition figures aren't as high. And anyway, it's not just the union causing problems for the auto industry. How many businesses out there would not be in trouble if all of a sudden you had half your sales go away?

But a worker at a GM plant is compensated roughly as well as one at a Toyota plant. The biggest difference comes from the retirees. For all intents and purposes, there are no retirees in North America from foreign automakers. Compared to hundreds of thousands depending on pension cheques from the big 3.

[PQ]

OK then, thanks for the clear up. So then the only problem I would have at that point is the benies for life part. I guess you can't do much about it now but I would definately look at revising this in the future.

However, I would bet that the foreign auto makers get the same amount of work done with a lot less workers. Can you offer an opinion on this. Most union guys I talk to (which granted is only a handful) talk about the fact that they can do twice the work if they had to but there are plenty of workers to do the job. Some talk about how great it is to split a shift on a divisional level so that they can only put in 30 hrs for 40 hrs worth of work. A lot of standing around. The general feeling of a union worker is that they are spoiled with much smaller amounts of actuall work done per worker. It may not be as bad as I think, but I know it's a true statement to some degree.

Pay is often the issue but I think a bigger issue is the amount of work being done by so many workers.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by irpq11

OK then, thanks for the clear up. So then the only problem I would have at that point is the benies for life part. I guess you can't do much about it now but I would definately look at revising this in the future.

However, I would bet that the foreign auto makers get the same amount of work done with a lot less workers. Can you offer an opinion on this. Most union guys I talk to (which granted is only a handful) talk about the fact that they can do twice the work if they had to but there are plenty of workers to do the job. Some talk about how great it is to split a shift on a divisional level so that they can only put in 30 hrs for 40 hrs worth of work. A lot of standing around. The general feeling of a union worker is that they are spoiled with much smaller amounts of actuall work done per worker. It may not be as bad as I think, but I know it's a true statement to some degree.

Pay is often the issue but I think a bigger issue is the amount of work being done by so many workers.

Yes, that does happen. And there was also the job pool: workers getting paid to do nothing. Its getting resolved, hence the massive reductions in workforce. But I don't think that we will know the efficiency of each individual worker for a while