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Old 08-03-2008, 10:55 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by rcreechssr View Post
With the new computer controlled engines, it would appear that octane rating is not as critical to prevent pre-ignition as in older engines. These engines will self adjust and run on 87 octane. However, as stated by others in this thread, you will lose some performance and in my experience some gas mileage (1-2mpg).
Now the economics. 92 octane is generally $.20-.25 more than 87 octane. My logic says that in a typical 20 gal. fill up, I'll pay roughly $4.00-$6.00 more per tank. In my opinion, that aint bad for a tank of higher performance, and better gas mileage. Just a thought.
while computers in automobiles do self adjust to run on lower octane gas, thats whats hurting your performance. they cut back the spark timing to prevent detonation (combustion cycle preignition) which means you dont start the combustion cycle till later in the rotation of the motor which means you arent reaching your full power potential

i spend 45 bucks to fill my car up (roughly) 14 gal tank, i fill up with 10-11 gal (cus i dont run my car down past 1/4 tank cus it can be detrimental to performance and the fuel pump). as ive stated before, i wont put 87 in my car. its a rare occasion that i'll even run 91 or... dare i say it 89.

93 for me baby
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Old 08-03-2008, 11:10 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
while computers in automobiles do self adjust to run on lower octane gas, thats whats hurting your performance. they cut back the spark timing to prevent detonation which means you dont start the combustion cycle till later in the rotation of the motor which means you arent reaching your full power potential

i spend 45 bucks to fill my car up (roughly) 14 gal tank, i fill up with 10-11 gal (cus i dont run my car down past 1/4 tank cus it can be detrimental to performance and the fuel pump). as ive stated before, i wont put 87 in my car. its a rare occasion that i'll even run 91 or... dare i say it 89.

93 for me baby

Greg you really know your shit, I like you man.......lol
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Old 08-04-2008, 04:50 AM   #17
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So us Swedes that have 95 octance standard, 98 premium won't have to worry about all this then, huh?
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Old 08-04-2008, 05:26 AM   #18
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Greg you really know your shit, I like you man.......lol
thanks. i try to share my knowledge as much as possible, usually to help, but sometimes to shut others up.

its hard fighting against all the ignorance in the world (and on this forum as of late)




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So us Swedes that have 95 octance standard, 98 premium won't have to worry about all this then, huh?
98...bastards...lol



unless your rating system is different than ours...
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Old 08-04-2008, 05:29 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
while computers in automobiles do self adjust to run on lower octane gas, thats whats hurting your performance. they cut back the spark timing to prevent detonation which means you dont start the combustion cycle till later in the rotation of the motor which means you arent reaching your full power potential

i spend 45 bucks to fill my car up (roughly) 14 gal tank, i fill up with 10-11 gal (cus i dont run my car down past 1/4 tank cus it can be detrimental to performance and the fuel pump). as ive stated before, i wont put 87 in my car. its a rare occasion that i'll even run 91 or... dare i say it 89.

93 for me baby
I'm with you 100%!!!
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:57 AM   #20
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When a bottle of octane boost (or snake oil as I call it) says 3 points it means from 89 to 89.3 not to 91. Total waste of money.
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:17 AM   #21
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I hope you all know why/how the computer knows to pull ignition and up the fuel/air ratio

KNOCK, that's right, the engine knock sensor, from preignition

it's NOT good, just because the engine is smart enough to retard ignition and richen the fuel does not mean it's good to run 87
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:58 AM   #22
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I would run 93 all day. however, even the vettes with trhe LS3 can run on 87, you jus lose some power. I don't remember who said it earlier, but the higher the octane rating, the WORSE fuel economy you get because it burns at a higher rate.

What we should all be hoping for is E85 capabilities, because that burns hotter than 93 and will give you some extra horses when using it.
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:43 AM   #23
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I would run 93 all day. however, even the vettes with trhe LS3 can run on 87, you jus lose some power. I don't remember who said it earlier, but the higher the octane rating, the WORSE fuel economy you get because it burns at a higher rate.

What we should all be hoping for is E85 capabilities, because that burns hotter than 93 and will give you some extra horses when using it.
wrong, e85 has less energy, it's ethanol based, you'll get worse mileage

you want to run the lowest octane fuel you can, without predetonation, any higher is a waste of money
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:52 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
When a bottle of octane boost (or snake oil as I call it) says 3 points it means from 89 to 89.3 not to 91. Total waste of money.
exactly right.... see post 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by mega View Post
I hope you all know why/how the computer knows to pull ignition and up the fuel/air ratio

KNOCK, that's right, the engine knock sensor, from preignition

it's NOT good, just because the engine is smart enough to retard ignition and richen the fuel does not mean it's good to run 87
knock = detonation... see post 15


Quote:
Originally Posted by jsenn View Post
I would run 93 all day. however, even the vettes with trhe LS3 can run on 87, you jus lose some power. I don't remember who said it earlier, but the higher the octane rating, the WORSE fuel economy you get because it burns at a higher rate.

What we should all be hoping for is E85 capabilities, because that burns hotter than 93 and will give you some extra horses when using it.

wait a sec... so you say that the higher octane rating, the worse fuel economy... e85 is effectively 100-105 octane rating... e85 users will spend the same amount if not more to run it over gasoline due to the fact that e85 tuned motors tend to run richer than gasoline. so what they think they are saving on gas at the pump, they are more than paying back on the road.

and when it comes to horsies, the only real time that e85 outshines regular gasoline is when the motor has a high enough compression ratio to make use of the higher octane level of e85. most other times e85 runs slightly less hp than gasoline.



and here's a nice coverage (by the epa) about e85s stats
http://www.epa.gov/air/caaac/mstrs/2006_10_dunham.pdf
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:56 AM   #25
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wait a sec... so you say that the higher octane rating, the worse fuel economy...
Different motor, but that has been my experience with my Cobalt SS/SC. I actually get better mileage with regular, but admittedly it is not scientific since I don't drive exactly the same every time, but it runs very nicely on regular, but I don't spend a ton of time in the upper part of the tach when I drive back and forth to work......
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:01 AM   #26
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wrong, e85 has less energy, it's ethanol based, you'll get worse mileage

you want to run the lowest octane fuel you can, without predetonation, any higher is a waste of money


already touched on the first part...

and the second, you hit the nail on the head

Octane is defined as a fuel's resistance to knocking. There is no benefit if the octane is higher than what the engine needs. Engine knock occurs when fuel in a combustion chamber ignites before it should. This disrupts the engine's operation. But electronic knock sensors are now common and have nearly eliminated engine disruption.

The American Petroleum Institute says if you find that your car runs fine on a lower grade, there is no sense switching to premium. The Institute recommends following manufacturer's recommendation, but even those manufacturers say that it is more of a suggestion than a command (mainly cus a lot of people who buy cars that have a recommended 93 rating will still go and use 87 cus they arent pushing their car to its limits and arent worried about it).

but i will say this to any LT1/LT4 owners out there. our motors came with roughly 10.5-11.0 cr. thats high considering the cr's of the other vehicles produced in that time. too many times, ive had someone complain about their car bogging down, running rough, and just crapping out in general. i ask what fuel they are running, they say 87... well, there's the problem. 90% of them that switched to premium found the car running smoother and better overall. the other 10% had opti problems... go figure.

adding on that, the cr of todays motors that are rolling off the production line is going up every day. but with more advanced tuning and distinctive engine properties (ie.I.) it is more and more common to see high cr motors running 87 without problems.
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:01 AM   #27
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wrong, e85 has less energy, it's ethanol based, you'll get worse mileage
Not wrong. In FI and high-compression applications; E85's natural ~103 Octane rating can have positive effects on performance. Mileage is a different story.
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:03 AM   #28
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Different motor, but that has been my experience with my Cobalt SS/SC. I actually get better mileage with regular, but admittedly it is not scientific since I don't drive exactly the same every time, but it runs very nicely on regular, but I don't spend a ton of time in the upper part of the tach when I drive back and forth to work......


throw a turbo on it and run 3 tanks of e85...lol



that will net you some hp... not sure on mpg tho.
the main thing to keep in mind with e85 vs gasoline, is that gasoline gives you more bang (not necessarily for the buck tho) what would be cool is if they made a dual tank flex fuel vehicle that on acceleration would go off gasoline, but when cruising, would switch to e85....
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