ZL1 Convertible without the 5 Performance Modes

[Chi-One]

While at a Chevy dealer today, I picked up the 2013 Camaro brochure. It specifically states PTM on ZL1 Coupe only.

[ssfox]

Originally Posted by Bcarr

Brandon,
No offense but why didn't you respond to the OP's post? If you work for Chevrolet maybe you can help him.

+1
What a joke!
Is this Brandon an actual person or a computer generated spam machine?
I've been on may different forums for many years and just cannot take it anymore reading how every once in a while this so call CSR chimes in and askes how the weather is!!!!

[niterat]

No PTM, No belly pan, 155 mph speed limiter. Those are the things they didn't tell about. I'm not just disappointed they didn't tell me, which is a clear breach of trust, but there is not a valid reason for any of them. Really unnecessary gutless decision making on GM's part. Very disappointing.

[DavidW]

Originally Posted by niterat

No PTM, No belly pan, 155 mph speed limiter. Those are the things they didn't tell about. I'm not just disappointed they didn't tell me, which is a clear breach of trust, but there is not a valid reason for any of them. Really unnecessary gutless decision making on GM's part. Very disappointing.

month old thread, I know but I just wanted to chime in

Trading my SS in for my Z was literally a decision I made waking up one morning and seeing an ad of a dealer with a new zl1 in stock 5 hours later I had my new car. I do enjoy the drop top part of it, but there is a very good chance I would have gone for a coupe had I known the serious performance differences between the coupe and vert the only one I really knew about prior to purchase was the extra weight of the vert, next came the lack of ptm on the drive home, then earlier today seeing there was no belly pan, and finally reading this and realizing that the speed limiter is equal to the ss. It is still a fun car, but I wonder what I would be driving right now had I known all of this before, and thought out my decision. I also wonder how much different the driving experience would be.

[hawk02]

Originally Posted by DavidW

month old thread, I know but I just wanted to chime in

Trading my SS in for my Z was literally a decision I made waking up one morning and seeing an ad of a dealer with a new zl1 in stock 5 hours later I had my new car. I do enjoy the drop top part of it, but there is a very good chance I would have gone for a coupe had I known the serious performance differences between the coupe and vert the only one I really knew about prior to purchase was the extra weight of the vert, next came the lack of ptm on the drive home, then earlier today seeing there was no belly pan, and finally reading this and realizing that the speed limiter is equal to the ss. It is still a fun car, but I wonder what I would be driving right now had I known all of this before, and thought out my decision. I also wonder how much different the driving experience would be.

Sorry, not going to get much sympathy from me. You bought a 60K+ car and didn't know the full specs until after you made the purchase. I'd say that is more a you problem than a GM problem. And look...I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I did a similar thing when I bought my first Camaro convertible. I bought an '11 2SS automatic and didn't realize until I got it home that the automatic had a different engine and exhaust package than the manual. I kicked myself in the butt for not doing the proper research prior to purchasing the car and when the opportunity came a knocking I traded it in for a '12 2SS manual. I chalked it up to one of life's big lessons and will never make that mistake again.

And for everyone complaining about the lack of performance modes, belly pan and 155 mph speed limit -- every product has design trade offs. The speed limit is there because of the canvas top. It's not certified to withstand speeds greater than 155 mph. As a result of the speed limit, the belly pan is not necessary so Chevy saved a few pounds on a car already heavier than the coupe by not including it. As for the performance modes, they're meant for the track. Most tracks I know won't let a convertible anywhere near them without some form of roll protection. So unless you're all planning to add a roll cage to your vert, you probably won't be tracking your car much. Had Chevy cut the HP by 20 or eliminated the MRC on the convertible, then I think we would all have a legitimate complaint. The design trade-offs they made on the ZL1 convertible seem pretty reasonable to me. Enjoy the car for what it is -- a wickedly fast, great looking and a hell of a lot fun to drive (especially with the top down) beast.

[SCHUSS]

Originally Posted by hawk02

Sorry, not going to get much sympathy from me. You bought a 60K+ car and didn't know the full specs until after you made the purchase. I'd say that is more a you problem than a GM problem. And look...I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I did a similar thing when I bought my first Camaro convertible. I bought an '11 2SS automatic and didn't realize until I got it home that the automatic had a different engine and exhaust package than the manual. I kicked myself in the butt for not doing the proper research prior to purchasing the car and when the opportunity came a knocking I traded it in for a '12 2SS manual. I chalked it up to one of life's big lessons and will never make that mistake again.

And for everyone complaining about the lack of performance modes, belly pan and 155 mph speed limit -- every product has design trade offs. The speed limit is there because of the canvas top. It's not certified to withstand speeds greater than 155 mph. As a result of the speed limit, the belly pan is not necessary so Chevy saved a few pounds on a car already heavier than the coupe by not including it. As for the performance modes, they're meant for the track. Most tracks I know won't let a convertible anywhere near them without some form of roll protection. So unless you're all planning to add a roll cage to your vert, you probably won't be tracking your car much. Had Chevy cut the HP by 20 or eliminated the MRC on the convertible, then I think we would all have a legitimate complaint. The design trade-offs they made on the ZL1 convertible seem pretty reasonable to me. Enjoy the car for what it is -- a wickedly fast, great looking and a hell of a lot fun to drive (especially with the top down) beast.

Well said!

[OrangeVert]

Originally Posted by hawk02

Sorry, not going to get much sympathy from me. You bought a 60K+ car and didn't know the full specs until after you made the purchase. I'd say that is more a you problem than a GM problem. And look...I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I did a similar thing when I bought my first Camaro convertible. I bought an '11 2SS automatic and didn't realize until I got it home that the automatic had a different engine and exhaust package than the manual. I kicked myself in the butt for not doing the proper research prior to purchasing the car and when the opportunity came a knocking I traded it in for a '12 2SS manual. I chalked it up to one of life's big lessons and will never make that mistake again.

And for everyone complaining about the lack of performance modes, belly pan and 155 mph speed limit -- every product has design trade offs. The speed limit is there because of the canvas top. It's not certified to withstand speeds greater than 155 mph. As a result of the speed limit, the belly pan is not necessary so Chevy saved a few pounds on a car already heavier than the coupe by not including it. As for the performance modes, they're meant for the track. Most tracks I know won't let a convertible anywhere near them without some form of roll protection. So unless you're all planning to add a roll cage to your vert, you probably won't be tracking your car much. Had Chevy cut the HP by 20 or eliminated the MRC on the convertible, then I think we would all have a legitimate complaint. The design trade-offs they made on the ZL1 convertible seem pretty reasonable to me. Enjoy the car for what it is -- a wickedly fast, great looking and a hell of a lot fun to drive (especially with the top down) beast.

Makes sense to me, thanks for explaining!

[niterat]

Originally Posted by hawk02

Sorry, not going to get much sympathy from me. You bought a 60K+ car and didn't know the full specs until after you made the purchase. I'd say that is more a you problem than a GM problem. And look...I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I did a similar thing when I bought my first Camaro convertible. I bought an '11 2SS automatic and didn't realize until I got it home that the automatic had a different engine and exhaust package than the manual. I kicked myself in the butt for not doing the proper research prior to purchasing the car and when the opportunity came a knocking I traded it in for a '12 2SS manual. I chalked it up to one of life's big lessons and will never make that mistake again.

And for everyone complaining about the lack of performance modes, belly pan and 155 mph speed limit -- every product has design trade offs. The speed limit is there because of the canvas top. It's not certified to withstand speeds greater than 155 mph. As a result of the speed limit, the belly pan is not necessary so Chevy saved a few pounds on a car already heavier than the coupe by not including it. As for the performance modes, they're meant for the track. Most tracks I know won't let a convertible anywhere near them without some form of roll protection. So unless you're all planning to add a roll cage to your vert, you probably won't be tracking your car much. Had Chevy cut the HP by 20 or eliminated the MRC on the convertible, then I think we would all have a legitimate complaint. The design trade-offs they made on the ZL1 convertible seem pretty reasonable to me. Enjoy the car for what it is -- a wickedly fast, great looking and a hell of a lot fun to drive (especially with the top down) beast.

I have to completely disagree on every point. When I bought my 60k car, no where would you find these disclosures about the differences between the convertible and the coupe aside from the weight. The dealer didn't know, I asked. Even the owners manual was silent and got revised long after my sale. I shouldn't have to be a detective or a lawyer about this. GM was not upfront - period. As for all the excuses why they did what they did, it is all about money, their money. Not certified above 155mph? Why not? Some scientific limit for ragtops at that speed? Of course not. You can engineer, and certify anything - just a matter of cost. They didn't bother because they wanted to cut cost, increase profit. The belly pan? it was in the way of the added stiffeners, that's why it was eliminated. As I look at it, a few simple mods to the pan and it will fit right in. Again, GM didn't want to bother between cost and deadlines. Easier to just eliminate it. Bottom line is GM was far from up front and I think they should be called out for rather than protected and excused. If you were less than forthcoming at your job would it be tolerated? Why do make excuses for GM? Why should they be accountable like the rest of us? Just because I love my car and have all kinds of Chevy stuff doesn't mean I pretend they never do wrong. I don't need your sympathy, but I also don't need your smug excuse making and blaming me for GM's poor handling. Had they been forthright about the differences then I would agree that I have nothing to complain about. The fact that they weren't is the whole reason for this thread, and my complaint.

[el ess A]

Fine. Then PROVE it to them, not us.

Ever hear the (para)phrase "GM reserves the right to add/modify/delete options/features/equipment/models, etc. at any time without notice."?

FAT CHANCE you'd get GM over a barrel on what they offer as a product or options/equipment on certain cars at any time. Do you get to choose when Cheerios comes out with a "new and improved" cheerio? No. Or if McDonald's decides to drop their Angus (anus) burgers from the menu? No.

Even with new cars, buyer beware. You likely had EVERY chance to go through the entire car before you signed the papers and if you didn't take that opportunity or settle for the idiot dealer's incompetence to get answers to your questions, it's on you (if not, only then you retain the right to b*tch).

It does sound like something's amiss with your suspension controls.

Caveat emptor applies to new cars, too. Sorry. Not feeling my sympathy meter move much.

[DavidW]

Originally Posted by hawk02

Sorry, not going to get much sympathy from me. You bought a 60K+ car and didn't know the full specs until after you made the purchase. I'd say that is more a you problem than a GM problem. And look...I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I did a similar thing when I bought my first Camaro convertible. I bought an '11 2SS automatic and didn't realize until I got it home that the automatic had a different engine and exhaust package than the manual. I kicked myself in the butt for not doing the proper research prior to purchasing the car and when the opportunity came a knocking I traded it in for a '12 2SS manual. I chalked it up to one of life's big lessons and will never make that mistake again.

And for everyone complaining about the lack of performance modes, belly pan and 155 mph speed limit -- every product has design trade offs. The speed limit is there because of the canvas top. It's not certified to withstand speeds greater than 155 mph. As a result of the speed limit, the belly pan is not necessary so Chevy saved a few pounds on a car already heavier than the coupe by not including it. As for the performance modes, they're meant for the track. Most tracks I know won't let a convertible anywhere near them without some form of roll protection. So unless you're all planning to add a roll cage to your vert, you probably won't be tracking your car much. Had Chevy cut the HP by 20 or eliminated the MRC on the convertible, then I think we would all have a legitimate complaint. The design trade-offs they made on the ZL1 convertible seem pretty reasonable to me. Enjoy the car for what it is -- a wickedly fast, great looking and a hell of a lot fun to drive (especially with the top down) beast.

I wasn't looking for sympathy, but also the changes made between the zl1 vert and coupe are a lot harder to find than the l99 and ls3. The power numbers and AFM are publicized, then you have the zl1 that had all these high performance features posted online in various locations by gm, and then they announce the convertible but do not mention the things that are removed from it. Belly pan - no excuse not to mention it was one of the parts that helped the coupe generate down force, ptm - no excuse, I can see why and respect the speed limiter, but at the same time the vette drop tops dont have one I believe, yes the all the information was available throughout this forum but it was not nearly as advertised as the l99 vs ls3 difference

[hawk02]

Originally Posted by niterat

I have to completely disagree on every point. When I bought my 60k car, no where would you find these disclosures about the differences between the convertible and the coupe aside from the weight. The dealer didn't know, I asked. Even the owners manual was silent and got revised long after my sale. I shouldn't have to be a detective or a lawyer about this. GM was not upfront - period. As for all the excuses why they did what they did, it is all about money, their money. Not certified above 155mph? Why not? Some scientific limit for ragtops at that speed? Of course not. You can engineer, and certify anything - just a matter of cost. They didn't bother because they wanted to cut cost, increase profit. The belly pan? it was in the way of the added stiffeners, that's why it was eliminated. As I look at it, a few simple mods to the pan and it will fit right in. Again, GM didn't want to bother between cost and deadlines. Easier to just eliminate it. Bottom line is GM was far from up front and I think they should be called out for rather than protected and excused. If you were less than forthcoming at your job would it be tolerated? Why do make excuses for GM? Why should they be accountable like the rest of us? Just because I love my car and have all kinds of Chevy stuff doesn't mean I pretend they never do wrong. I don't need your sympathy, but I also don't need your smug excuse making and blaming me for GM's poor handling. Had they been forthright about the differences then I would agree that I have nothing to complain about. The fact that they weren't is the whole reason for this thread, and my complaint.

First off, I was by no means making excuses for GM. As I said in my post, every product has design trade-offs. And yes, money is a major influence in those trades offs in conjuction with the product's target market. Companies try to maximize profit margins whenever possible. It's considered good business.

The trade offs GM made by not including the belly pan, PTM modes and limiting the top speed to 155 seem reasonable to me based on cost and market the convertible is targeted to. Ford has made similar trade offs with the Cobra GT convertible. It too is limited to 155 mph and there is no track pack option available for it. So it's just not GM. As a consumer, why would I want to pay for something that provides little or no benefit and/or I'll never use. That's how I look at these options.

As far as GM should have been more up front with the differences, all I can say is "Caveat Emptor". A lot of companies don't disclose every single difference between their product lines. It certainly would be nice if they did, but they don't so it's up to the consumer to do the research. I bought my convertible in January and between spending entirely too much time on this site, other web sites, YouTube videos and product literature, I knew exactly what the differences were between the coupe and convertible. The info was available just not in a nice side by side comparison.

As I said before, enjoy the car for what it is. We all have purchased the most powerful Camaro convertible GM has ever produced.

[agent2594]

Originally Posted by hawk02

As far as GM should have been more up front with the differences, all I can say is "Caveat Emptor". A lot of companies don't disclose every single difference between their product lines. It certainly would be nice if they did, but they don't so it's up to the consumer to do the research.

How did you find out that the convertibles have no belly pan? I just discovered this on my ZL1 yesterday, but I couldn't find any other discussion about it on the forums. It certainly would be nice if GM had published these differences somewhere so that our research would be easier.

With that said, I agree with your overall position. My purchase was semi-impulsive, like what you described with your first convertible. I should have done more research before buying, regardless of the difficulty of the research, although it probably wouldn't have changed my decision (once I saw the convertible in the showroom, I couldn't resist!).

I've learned my lesson, but I'm not terribly upset. I may have a speed limiter and no PTM, but I'm still enjoying it.

[Howdie_]

C'mon guys, are you kidding me? You would have bought the coupe if you knew this??? This is a drop top, which all have inherent compromises in rigidity. A convertible is not a track car, around here, they are not allowed on them, I checked. The need to go 185 mph, a race mode in the PTM and a belly pan, are TRACK needs. I knew going in, if I wanted to track this car (road course or drag strip) I needed a coupe. To demonstrate, go outside, put the top down and open both doors. Then you will see how comparatively little is holding the front of the car to the back, the floor. While I have not been able to drive my new car very fast yet, I know in my 99 Trans Am WS6, the buffeting was very uncomfortable, top up or down at 130 mph. As has been stated, this is the most powerful GM convertible ever! I love it...
But, they are holding their value and relatively hard to find, sell it for the coupe....

[hawk02]

Originally Posted by agent2594

How did you find out that the convertibles have no belly pan? I just discovered this on my ZL1 yesterday, but I couldn't find any other discussion about it on the forums.

This thread.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6038196