We all feared it...Looking more like reality!

[NOT A 45]

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

I have a list.

Please don't let my ex wife be on that list.....they'll blame me for sure!

[1COR.1:18]

Find new Companies, Find new Cars.

[CamaroCracka]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

EVs are not the answer.with 8 billion two legged rats on the planet population reduction is the answer...but theres no volunteers.

The climate change croud should volunteer. It's their issue and they blow more gas than anyone.

[pyroguy]

Originally Posted by NOT A 45

The third potential GM subbrand under evaluation is Camaro. "We did look at other successful standalone products like Silverado and Suburban but found them unsuitable for various different reasons. In our view, an additional independent lineup must be compiled from three or more distinctly different offerings under the same brand umbrella."

In the case of the Camaro, these models have been provisionally defined as a fully electric 2+2-seater coupe and convertible, a decidedly sporty crossover offered in two-door and four-door body styles, and a mid-price flagship sports car loosely linked to the C9 Corvette in content but not in appearance. Substantial in-house synergies should make the all-electric Camaros a solid business case with global appeal.

I know GM is looking at this, but it's typical modern day GM nonsense, nothing new, nothing original. Copy someone else's idea (in this case the Mustang mach-e) and slap on an old nameplate in hopes of appealing to people's nostalgia. Often times it is a gigantic flop and it does what is being done here, upset their die hard fan base.

Originally Posted by ZED SLED

Maybe they'll call it the Panther.

I've been saying this all along! Let Camaro die internal combustion powered and bring out a Chevy Panther. Their catch phrase, provided it is an electric muscle car, could be "A new kind of muscle for a new kind of muscle car."

Originally Posted by Moto-Mojo

All I can say is, 'No country for old (muscle car) men.' Remember, in the next 10-20 years, there will be a MASSIVE die-off of Baby Boomers. That's like 21% of the current population. I guess they have to plan ahead.

Not all who are in favor of muscle cars, new or old, are baby boomers. Many aren't even in Gen X. No, the muscle car boom isn't quite what it used to be because of forced induction 4 cylinder engines, but it is FAR from dead. There's a reason why the Camaro sold out the first year it came out compared to the roughly 7,000 Volts. There's a reason why Hellcat Challengers were sold out for the first year plus after being released. People want muscle cars and not econo cars and/or fart can cars.

Originally Posted by ariZona28

I've got a great idea for a subbrand. They could come out with a new generation of unattractive, unreliable front wheel drive pieces of crap. They could call it Pontiac or Oldsmobile. Could be the '80s all over again. Woo-hoo!

If GM were to bring back a sub-brand for EV's I'd MUCH rather them bring back GEO. Don't destroy a brand like Pontiac or even Oldsmobile worse than what they already did.

Originally Posted by NOT A 45

Wait until you see what their getting ready to do with Corvette! It will make you vomit!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, hard pass. I'm a soft pass on the C8 simply because it has the engine in the wrong spot, looks like a European car instead of an American car, and the Z06 doesn't even sound like a Corvette anymore in addition to not looking the part. Yes, the performance is incredible, but it is still a hard sell for me.

Originally Posted by b3freak

Do y'all remember all the "peak oil" debates surrounding the end of the oil supply? It's been cycling in and out of the press since the 50s back when I my father was beginning to drive. It resurfaced big time in the early 2000s. The "end of oil supply" was reason they thought we'd should move away from ICE and into alternate forms of energy for transportation. Here we are in 2022 and just like the VHS vs. Betamax vs. Laserdisc competition of the 70s/80s, it seems EV has won. The big reason to move away from internal combustion seems to rest solely on climate change or "global warming". While I'm sure most of us would agree we need to take care of the world we share, but I'm not entirely convinced that electrical vehicles won't have as much impact on the earth and climate. Some points to consider:

Did you know?
1. That the batteries in electric vehicles take 10x the materials to produce over ICE.
2. A single EV contains more cobalt than 1000 smartphones.
3. It takes moving 1.5 tons of earth to extract the precious metals to produce one Tesla battery array?
4. It also take 100 barrels of oil to fabricate one battery on a EV.
5. By 2030, it's predicted that batteries will produce 10 million metric tons of waste.
6. The lithium mining uses about 500,000 gallons of water per metric ton of lithium. Lithium mining is predicted to be more harmful to the environment because of the toxic chemicals it produces. The extraction process leaves behind toxic chemicals which harms the soil and causes severe air contamination. Researchers have found lithium extraction contamination in water 150 miles from the processing site.

Where do you think this is all happening? Not in our yard! In China. China dominates the global market, just like the Middle East dominated the market for oil production. Let that sink in.

source - Manhattan-Institute research and Institute for energy research.

Before you go off on the mining aspect too much, the Mine Safety and Health Administration which is the governing body in the USA would not allow the environmental impact to be what the Manhattan-Institute is touting. Unfortunately, most people don't think mining is very regulated in the states and would be awful. What's worse is that those who want electric cars are off protesting lithium mines in the US where mining would be significantly less environmentally impactful AND provide quality jobs to Americans. Instead we want to source it from unfriendly countries who pollute more, don't want to sell us quality products, and couldn't care less about us, not to mention, there's not enough lithium to do all we are talking about and the power grid cannot support the loads. Hell, they shut down the power to a large area where I live, including my house one night to install power upgrades to power the new GM lithium battery plant. If they had to do all of that for the battery plant, imagine the nights/days it will take to upgrade the entire grid and the added costs to the electricity consumer because the power company will not eat that cost.

[xstuntman]

Originally Posted by LT1Zob

After 25 years of loyalty to the brand, many Tahoes, Traverses, Cadillacs, Camaros and Corvettes later, I’ve purchased my last new GM (sorry, didn’t mean to offend, it’s a soft gm now). I’ll still buy used (maybe), but no more new for me. They can whore out the sacred nameplates all they want, means nothing to me anymore.

Same here, this was my last new GM. Lots of good used stuff out there tho.
I just read (I think it was Motor Trend) an article that rated the GM trucks the worst of the bunch tested.
I am glad to see the Maverick coming back as a four door truck with the 250hp 4 cyl option, don't have to buy the hybrid, and supposedly around a 20K price tag. Toyota is also coming out with one so it could get interesting. GM too with the Montana but I won't consider that one.

[BehindBlueI's]

Originally Posted by ariZona28

Once again the Japanese are paying attention to what the consumer wants. The BIG problem with hydrogen power will be the refueling infrastructure.

The big problem with hydrogen is it is not energy positive. It's just an intermediate step, a way to *store* energy, like a battery. You still have to put energy in to create it and you can't get more out than you put in.

In a nation like Japan where fossil fuels must be imported but nuclear and renewables are the main domestic sources, hydrogen makes sense and becomes economically viable. If you're in the US with abundant fossil fuels it doesn't make sense. Which is why it never catches on, even in small scale markets like CA with abundant investment/subsidies to create the infrastructure.

[ssonic2013]

I've always been a Camaro or Corvette guy. Baby boomer here.
For me I've decided to go with the C7 when prices come down
or maybe in 2024 get one. And that's my wad until they throw
dirt in my face. which hopefully will be a long time. How cool to
be in your eighties which is 15 years from now. and be driving a gas drinking C7 vette

[67-LS1]

Personally, I could care less if they recycle the name and use it for other types cars.
JUST MAKE COOL SHIT !

[pyroguy]

Originally Posted by 67-LS1

Personally, I could care less if they recycle the name and use it for other types cars.
JUST MAKE COOL SHIT !

That's the problem, they don't typically make anything cool with a recycled nameplate. The new Blazer is a prime example of that. It's a mom-mobile when everyone was begging for a K5 refresh.

[ElderJ]

Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's

The big problem with hydrogen is it is not energy positive. It's just an intermediate step, a way to *store* energy, like a battery. You still have to put energy in to create it and you can't get more out than you put in.

Engineering Explained has a great video on the problems with using hydrogen cells. Elon Musk was dead on this time with his criticism.

[Danial]

Originally Posted by ssonic2013

I've always been a Camaro or Corvette guy. Baby boomer here.
For me I've decided to go with the C7 when prices come down
or maybe in 2024 get one. And that's my wad until they throw
dirt in my face. which hopefully will be a long time. How cool to
be in your eighties which is 15 years from now. and be driving a gas drinking C7 vette

I'm going to be 60 on my next birthday (yikes!) And like you, I am really wanting that C7. I think it is the sexiest Corvette ever made...but yes, prices need to come down. I wouldn't mind having that parked next to my 15 SS/RS CE Vert in the garage....but then where would I put the 57 Chev 2DHT when I finally found one? Or the silver, 14 Z/28? Well, and then I have figure out what to do with the 66/67 Chev Malibu 2DHT.... Ah, so many cars, so little time.

[Brutale arancia]

"Don't worry baby, what you're gonna miss. There'll always be much, much more than this." - Gordon Downie

[ADVMax]

batteries are for cranking engines.

[dkp2LT]

Originally Posted by Danial

I'm going to be 60 on my next birthday (yikes!) And like you, I am really wanting that C7. I think it is the sexiest Corvette ever made...but yes, prices need to come down. I wouldn't mind having that parked next to my 15 SS/RS CE Vert in the garage....but then where would I put the 57 Chev 2DHT when I finally found one? Or the silver, 14 Z/28? Well, and then I have figure out what to do with the 66/67 Chev Malibu 2DHT.... Ah, so many cars, so little time.

The C7 is a nice vehicle but I personally think the C6 is the sexiest - especially my Grand Sport sitting next to the Camaro! :-)

Which brings up my next point - GM doesn't give a rats a$$ what we think. A lot of Gen5 parts are being discontinued so they've already squeezed 95% of the revenue they can get out of the generation. There will be buyers ready to buy an EV Camaro SUV, just like the Mustang Mach-E. (Though at least Ford is keeping the ICE Mustang coupe alive which helps with the branding... For now.)

The same conversations are going on at the corvetteforum.com site.

One thing I don't understand is the possibility of both the Camaro and Corvette EV SUV unless they're on the same platform with different specs. I can't see spending that much for both names, but I guess that's why they don't pay me for my opinion.